1
00:00:03,710 --> 00:00:01,969
hey everybody how you doing Jay I always

2
00:00:05,269 --> 00:00:03,720
ask you how you doing today you said

3
00:00:07,369 --> 00:00:05,279
you're not feeling so good it's not so

4
00:00:09,950 --> 00:00:07,379
good not so I had one of those I don't

5
00:00:12,350 --> 00:00:09,960
know if it's covid or if it's a virus of

6
00:00:15,470 --> 00:00:12,360
some sort of the last 24 about 48 hours

7
00:00:17,390 --> 00:00:15,480
now uh just rough coughing up along you

8
00:00:19,609 --> 00:00:17,400
know congested like crazy I didn't want

9
00:00:21,890 --> 00:00:19,619
to miss this recording because we've had

10
00:00:24,590 --> 00:00:21,900
Darren scheduled for quite some time but

11
00:00:26,929 --> 00:00:24,600
uh I I popped some pills I'm ready to go

12
00:00:29,630 --> 00:00:26,939
no blue orbs or blue meanies or anything

13
00:00:31,490 --> 00:00:29,640
like that not yet I made I may pass out

14
00:00:32,870 --> 00:00:31,500
during the interview but so far so good

15
00:00:34,310 --> 00:00:32,880
yeah all right I got you buddy that's

16
00:00:35,690 --> 00:00:34,320
why we do this for two of us it's the

17
00:00:38,150 --> 00:00:35,700
reason you have two pilots in a plane

18
00:00:40,549 --> 00:00:38,160
just in case 100 dies

19
00:00:42,290 --> 00:00:40,559
passes out you know we don't eat the

20
00:00:44,750 --> 00:00:42,300
same meal we don't even stay in the same

21
00:00:46,310 --> 00:00:44,760
house we're that safe about it so just

22
00:00:48,049 --> 00:00:46,320
the way we're kidding aside though

23
00:00:49,610 --> 00:00:48,059
today's an awesome day we uh there's a

24
00:00:51,170 --> 00:00:49,620
new communications director for the John

25
00:00:52,850 --> 00:00:51,180
Mack Institute you know we're big fans

26
00:00:55,549 --> 00:00:52,860
of John Mack love his work with

27
00:00:57,350 --> 00:00:55,559
Psychiatry and kids and he wasn't scared

28
00:00:59,689 --> 00:00:57,360
to go after the UFO phenomenon even

29
00:01:01,610 --> 00:00:59,699
though Harvard damn near fired him over

30
00:01:03,529 --> 00:01:01,620
it you know they later came to his aid

31
00:01:05,210 --> 00:01:03,539
but we want to chat with somebody who

32
00:01:07,130 --> 00:01:05,220
also is in the world of research and has

33
00:01:09,289 --> 00:01:07,140
their own podcast somebody who knows

34
00:01:11,270 --> 00:01:09,299
everything about John Mack but also kind

35
00:01:13,250 --> 00:01:11,280
of understands this on a different level

36
00:01:15,530 --> 00:01:13,260
in terms of the phenomenon wouldn't you

37
00:01:17,210 --> 00:01:15,540
get that many reports and cases you have

38
00:01:19,730 --> 00:01:17,220
so much food for thought that you can

39
00:01:20,929 --> 00:01:19,740
get a really broad understanding and we

40
00:01:22,850 --> 00:01:20,939
love chatting with these people because

41
00:01:24,410 --> 00:01:22,860
we always learn something so it's going

42
00:01:26,870 --> 00:01:24,420
to be a fun day we're going to get

43
00:01:29,230 --> 00:01:26,880
Darren King on also known as EXO

44
00:01:31,850 --> 00:01:29,240
academian that's kind of his uh Facebook

45
00:01:34,010 --> 00:01:31,860
handle uh he's a really well spoken guy

46
00:01:37,130 --> 00:01:34,020
it's gonna be awesome I'm ready to go

47
00:01:44,990 --> 00:01:37,140
Jason's taking Advil we'll be back in 26

48
00:02:04,609 --> 00:01:55,310
[Music]

49
00:02:08,389 --> 00:02:06,350
welcome back to another episode of UAP

50
00:02:10,309 --> 00:02:08,399
studies podcast my name is Louis Borges

51
00:02:12,770 --> 00:02:10,319
joining me as always my under the

52
00:02:14,270 --> 00:02:12,780
weather friend today Jason gilmette oh

53
00:02:16,910 --> 00:02:14,280
I've been under the weather for the last

54
00:02:19,130 --> 00:02:16,920
48 hours so but I'm happy I'm able to

55
00:02:20,809 --> 00:02:19,140
make the uh the recording tonight

56
00:02:22,130 --> 00:02:20,819
because I this morning I was like I

57
00:02:24,050 --> 00:02:22,140
don't know if I'm gonna be able to make

58
00:02:25,850 --> 00:02:24,060
it Louie may have to take this one on

59
00:02:27,710 --> 00:02:25,860
his own so thank God I've been able to

60
00:02:29,570 --> 00:02:27,720
make it and you got your back bro you

61
00:02:32,510 --> 00:02:29,580
can trust fall we're here yeah yeah I'm

62
00:02:34,369 --> 00:02:32,520
happy you guys uh you guys are here and

63
00:02:36,350 --> 00:02:34,379
I'm happy I'm here too for sure yeah

64
00:02:38,210 --> 00:02:36,360
exciting episode today we're chatting

65
00:02:41,270 --> 00:02:38,220
with Darren King who also goes by the

66
00:02:42,830 --> 00:02:41,280
handle EXO academian uh he's a podcaster

67
00:02:44,690 --> 00:02:42,840
and a researcher he's also the

68
00:02:47,030 --> 00:02:44,700
communications director for the John E

69
00:02:49,670 --> 00:02:47,040
Mack Institute and that's basically a

70
00:02:51,470 --> 00:02:49,680
multi-disciplinary initiative to try to

71
00:02:53,990 --> 00:02:51,480
shed some light on the meaning of

72
00:02:55,150 --> 00:02:54,000
reality and deep questions so I'm very

73
00:02:57,890 --> 00:02:55,160
excited we're going to chat about

74
00:03:00,350 --> 00:02:57,900
Darren's career as well as John Mack and

75
00:03:02,150 --> 00:03:00,360
some of his work and uh yeah it's gonna

76
00:03:04,070 --> 00:03:02,160
be fun so with that welcome to the show

77
00:03:05,690 --> 00:03:04,080
Darren King

78
00:03:06,830 --> 00:03:05,700
thanks so much guys I'm really happy to

79
00:03:09,530 --> 00:03:06,840
join you I've heard great things about

80
00:03:10,550 --> 00:03:09,540
your podcast so uh I'm uh happy to do

81
00:03:12,050 --> 00:03:10,560
this and I think we're gonna have a

82
00:03:13,369 --> 00:03:12,060
great conversation well we hope we won't

83
00:03:15,830 --> 00:03:13,379
let you down we're going to do our best

84
00:03:17,449 --> 00:03:15,840
to keep that high standard up so tell us

85
00:03:20,030 --> 00:03:17,459
a little bit about yourself what got you

86
00:03:22,910 --> 00:03:20,040
into the topic and uh what led you into

87
00:03:24,890 --> 00:03:22,920
uh working at the John Mack Institute

88
00:03:26,690 --> 00:03:24,900
well that's the uh six million dollar

89
00:03:28,250 --> 00:03:26,700
question uh that's a complex one

90
00:03:30,410 --> 00:03:28,260
whenever asked people asking me how did

91
00:03:31,610 --> 00:03:30,420
you get into it in some ways I could

92
00:03:33,229 --> 00:03:31,620
sort of pick different moments in my

93
00:03:35,390 --> 00:03:33,239
life and start from there and it would

94
00:03:36,410 --> 00:03:35,400
still make sense uh I think one of the

95
00:03:39,710 --> 00:03:36,420
things that's really interesting about

96
00:03:41,449 --> 00:03:39,720
this phenomenon is that as time goes on

97
00:03:43,309 --> 00:03:41,459
and you have certain experiences it

98
00:03:47,030 --> 00:03:43,319
tends to recontextualize your entire

99
00:03:48,710 --> 00:03:47,040
life and so as time goes forward in a

100
00:03:51,949 --> 00:03:48,720
linear way at least how we perceive it

101
00:03:53,990 --> 00:03:51,959
it also feels like my my contextualized

102
00:03:55,850 --> 00:03:54,000
understanding of how this phenomenon has

103
00:03:57,770 --> 00:03:55,860
impacted me goes back further and

104
00:03:59,149 --> 00:03:57,780
further into my past so that's been an

105
00:04:01,250 --> 00:03:59,159
interesting

106
00:04:02,930 --> 00:04:01,260
thing to notice but I would say if

107
00:04:04,309 --> 00:04:02,940
there's one thing or a couple things I

108
00:04:07,490 --> 00:04:04,319
would point to

109
00:04:09,770 --> 00:04:07,500
I just had an an unusually strong draw

110
00:04:11,990 --> 00:04:09,780
to this topic really was drawn to

111
00:04:13,610 --> 00:04:12,000
Whitley strieber's books you know

112
00:04:16,069 --> 00:04:13,620
communion transformation breakthrough

113
00:04:17,930 --> 00:04:16,079
all those original ones secret School

114
00:04:19,370 --> 00:04:17,940
was fascinated by that also a little bit

115
00:04:21,949 --> 00:04:19,380
terrified by it as well I remember

116
00:04:23,810 --> 00:04:21,959
driving up to Mountain Cabins and

117
00:04:25,070 --> 00:04:23,820
sometimes you know flood lights would

118
00:04:26,930 --> 00:04:25,080
come on because there would be like the

119
00:04:28,790 --> 00:04:26,940
salt machine that you know they store

120
00:04:30,050 --> 00:04:28,800
all the salt into the floodlights if it

121
00:04:31,310 --> 00:04:30,060
come on you see this light flashing

122
00:04:32,030 --> 00:04:31,320
through the trees you think ah this is

123
00:04:34,070 --> 00:04:32,040
it

124
00:04:36,110 --> 00:04:34,080
you know abduction time after I had just

125
00:04:37,610 --> 00:04:36,120
read communion kind of thing and in fact

126
00:04:39,469 --> 00:04:37,620
we went up to this cabin funny quick

127
00:04:41,030 --> 00:04:39,479
story in the middle of the night the

128
00:04:43,730 --> 00:04:41,040
wind blew open like the door of the

129
00:04:44,990 --> 00:04:43,740
cabin and everyone around the table was

130
00:04:46,189 --> 00:04:45,000
just an interesting sociological

131
00:04:48,110 --> 00:04:46,199
experiment because everyone around the

132
00:04:50,090 --> 00:04:48,120
table had a different expectation or

133
00:04:51,710 --> 00:04:50,100
interpretation of what that was somebody

134
00:04:53,210 --> 00:04:51,720
thought ax murder somebody else thought

135
00:04:56,270 --> 00:04:53,220
bear or somebody else thought you know

136
00:04:57,710 --> 00:04:56,280
cougar I thought gray aliens you know so

137
00:05:00,590 --> 00:04:57,720
it's just funny how our expectations

138
00:05:02,629 --> 00:05:00,600
shape our our understanding of reality

139
00:05:04,129 --> 00:05:02,639
and then later on I had some anomalous

140
00:05:05,990 --> 00:05:04,139
experiences of my own

141
00:05:08,930 --> 00:05:06,000
really kind of mind-blowing experiences

142
00:05:10,490 --> 00:05:08,940
uh one really stands out is both my

143
00:05:14,030 --> 00:05:10,500
ex-wife and I

144
00:05:16,670 --> 00:05:14,040
woke up to find a female entity at the

145
00:05:19,550 --> 00:05:16,680
end of our bed that seems surprised that

146
00:05:21,710 --> 00:05:19,560
we could see her slash it and then this

147
00:05:24,290 --> 00:05:21,720
entity proceeded to pass through the

148
00:05:26,270 --> 00:05:24,300
wall and then I did a funny thing which

149
00:05:27,890 --> 00:05:26,280
was actually not so funny or not so

150
00:05:29,570 --> 00:05:27,900
uncommon according to this literature

151
00:05:31,670 --> 00:05:29,580
I'm sure you both have heard about this

152
00:05:34,310 --> 00:05:31,680
I turned around went straight to bed as

153
00:05:37,550 --> 00:05:34,320
if nothing unusual had happened at all

154
00:05:39,170 --> 00:05:37,560
thankfully my ex-wife shook me awake and

155
00:05:40,129 --> 00:05:39,180
said what are you doing before I went to

156
00:05:41,629 --> 00:05:40,139
sleep and said you know what are you

157
00:05:43,550 --> 00:05:41,639
doing trying to go back to sleep we know

158
00:05:45,590 --> 00:05:43,560
what we both saw and that kind of shook

159
00:05:47,510 --> 00:05:45,600
me out of my stupor which is really

160
00:05:49,730 --> 00:05:47,520
fascinating to me because if I had not

161
00:05:50,930 --> 00:05:49,740
been sort of shaken out of my studio I

162
00:05:52,070 --> 00:05:50,940
probably would have gone to sleep and

163
00:05:54,469 --> 00:05:52,080
probably would have forgotten about it

164
00:05:56,450 --> 00:05:54,479
or assumed it was a dream but we both

165
00:05:57,710 --> 00:05:56,460
saw it it wasn't hallucination it wasn't

166
00:05:59,810 --> 00:05:57,720
a dream

167
00:06:02,150 --> 00:05:59,820
we uh we hightailed each other pretty

168
00:06:03,950 --> 00:06:02,160
quickly after that it was only years

169
00:06:06,170 --> 00:06:03,960
later when I started really researching

170
00:06:08,390 --> 00:06:06,180
the UFO phenomenon that I began to

171
00:06:11,330 --> 00:06:08,400
encounter all of the high strangeness

172
00:06:15,170 --> 00:06:11,340
and learned how that particular response

173
00:06:18,050 --> 00:06:15,180
almost that behavioral uh control of my

174
00:06:19,909 --> 00:06:18,060
my actions by some other intelligence is

175
00:06:21,350 --> 00:06:19,919
very very common in this phenomenon I'm

176
00:06:23,510 --> 00:06:21,360
sure you both know

177
00:06:25,550 --> 00:06:23,520
so that's kind of how that happened

178
00:06:27,409 --> 00:06:25,560
then I started up this podcast thinking

179
00:06:28,790 --> 00:06:27,419
it was going to be just me and five

180
00:06:31,909 --> 00:06:28,800
people listening

181
00:06:33,409 --> 00:06:31,919
than that and I just was going to

182
00:06:35,090 --> 00:06:33,419
reflect on my own experiences and

183
00:06:36,770 --> 00:06:35,100
reflect on what I was learning about

184
00:06:39,290 --> 00:06:36,780
other people's experiences and the

185
00:06:41,749 --> 00:06:39,300
Nuance of all of this because I think

186
00:06:43,490 --> 00:06:41,759
about it in spiritual terms too I have a

187
00:06:45,890 --> 00:06:43,500
religious studies background as well and

188
00:06:47,629 --> 00:06:45,900
so I really wanted to make sense of that

189
00:06:48,950 --> 00:06:47,639
how does that fit in with non-duality

190
00:06:50,749 --> 00:06:48,960
which is so common in people's

191
00:06:54,590 --> 00:06:50,759
experience kind of ego death in these

192
00:06:57,290 --> 00:06:54,600
situations so a lot to parse through and

193
00:06:59,510 --> 00:06:57,300
then because of that podcast

194
00:07:01,550 --> 00:06:59,520
being pretty widespread I was then

195
00:07:03,950 --> 00:07:01,560
invited to go to some some Retreats and

196
00:07:05,270 --> 00:07:03,960
some conferences and begin to speak I

197
00:07:06,590 --> 00:07:05,280
went to a retreat last year at the

198
00:07:08,749 --> 00:07:06,600
Monroe Institute which was really really

199
00:07:11,510 --> 00:07:08,759
interesting and we had some very

200
00:07:13,969 --> 00:07:11,520
interesting experiences we engaged in

201
00:07:16,629 --> 00:07:13,979
ce5 slash The Heist protocols and had

202
00:07:19,189 --> 00:07:16,639
experiences there captured it on film

203
00:07:21,230 --> 00:07:19,199
soon after that I actually began to get

204
00:07:24,050 --> 00:07:21,240
kind of telepathic downloads because of

205
00:07:26,330 --> 00:07:24,060
that experience woke up with new bits of

206
00:07:28,370 --> 00:07:26,340
information in my mind that only as the

207
00:07:30,050 --> 00:07:28,380
days went on with this sort of slot into

208
00:07:31,189 --> 00:07:30,060
place and I go oh this was this is where

209
00:07:32,689 --> 00:07:31,199
that makes sense but I wouldn't know

210
00:07:35,510 --> 00:07:32,699
initially

211
00:07:38,510 --> 00:07:35,520
and as I began to continue to talk about

212
00:07:41,089 --> 00:07:38,520
these things and just really delve into

213
00:07:42,770 --> 00:07:41,099
the nuances of it turns out people

214
00:07:44,570 --> 00:07:42,780
associated with the John Mack Institute

215
00:07:46,610 --> 00:07:44,580
happened to hear my podcast while

216
00:07:48,950 --> 00:07:46,620
traveling across the country listen to

217
00:07:51,170 --> 00:07:48,960
episodes back to back to back really

218
00:07:54,050 --> 00:07:51,180
appreciated the nuanced way that I I

219
00:07:56,689 --> 00:07:54,060
tackled the topic and also really helped

220
00:07:59,330 --> 00:07:56,699
to Champion the cause of experiencers

221
00:08:00,770 --> 00:07:59,340
who've had many of these experiences so

222
00:08:02,570 --> 00:08:00,780
that's kind of how I got involved with

223
00:08:03,589 --> 00:08:02,580
them and that's the long story short how

224
00:08:05,689 --> 00:08:03,599
I ended up being the communications

225
00:08:09,469 --> 00:08:05,699
director for the John Mack Institute

226
00:08:12,830 --> 00:08:09,479
nice uh Darren I'm curious about the

227
00:08:15,409 --> 00:08:12,840
details on this uh this woman won

228
00:08:17,029 --> 00:08:15,419
because you were almost like nonchalant

229
00:08:19,129 --> 00:08:17,039
about it like oh whatever I'll just go

230
00:08:21,170 --> 00:08:19,139
back to bed it's weird but people do do

231
00:08:23,809 --> 00:08:21,180
that when some weird stuff just happened

232
00:08:25,790 --> 00:08:23,819
to them uh but do you do you

233
00:08:28,189 --> 00:08:25,800
specifically remember any details about

234
00:08:31,129 --> 00:08:28,199
this woman like did she look human like

235
00:08:33,050 --> 00:08:31,139
how what was her look did dark hair or

236
00:08:36,589 --> 00:08:33,060
or pale or

237
00:08:38,870 --> 00:08:36,599
so my first my first assumption was that

238
00:08:40,430 --> 00:08:38,880
it was our three-year-old daughter that

239
00:08:42,350 --> 00:08:40,440
was sleeping in the bed besides us but

240
00:08:44,269 --> 00:08:42,360
really that's only because your mind

241
00:08:47,030 --> 00:08:44,279
tries to rationally come up with some

242
00:08:49,670 --> 00:08:47,040
sort of solution right when I sort of

243
00:08:52,790 --> 00:08:49,680
got up it was clear that this being was

244
00:08:56,750 --> 00:08:52,800
too tall to be my daughter and didn't

245
00:08:58,430 --> 00:08:56,760
really look like her had had blonde hair

246
00:08:59,930 --> 00:08:58,440
looked mostly human there was something

247
00:09:01,790 --> 00:08:59,940
a little bit weird

248
00:09:04,550 --> 00:09:01,800
more angular or something but I couldn't

249
00:09:06,650 --> 00:09:04,560
quite put my finger on it

250
00:09:09,230 --> 00:09:06,660
but other than that looks mostly human

251
00:09:11,750 --> 00:09:09,240
what's interesting is that

252
00:09:14,269 --> 00:09:11,760
my ex-wife and I both saw the same

253
00:09:15,650 --> 00:09:14,279
entity to subscribe to the same way but

254
00:09:17,509 --> 00:09:15,660
there were subtle differences in what we

255
00:09:19,190 --> 00:09:17,519
perceived as well which was really

256
00:09:20,690 --> 00:09:19,200
fascinating and really I think throws us

257
00:09:22,610 --> 00:09:20,700
for a loop and I think that really

258
00:09:24,530 --> 00:09:22,620
raises some interesting questions about

259
00:09:27,410 --> 00:09:24,540
how Consciousness and perception come

260
00:09:29,449 --> 00:09:27,420
into this entire Endeavor for instance

261
00:09:31,910 --> 00:09:29,459
she saw flowing hair as if there was

262
00:09:33,949 --> 00:09:31,920
like wind blowing the hair I saw a hair

263
00:09:35,930 --> 00:09:33,959
that was just flat against the the head

264
00:09:37,490 --> 00:09:35,940
so little things like that I'm sorry

265
00:09:38,449 --> 00:09:37,500
really you saw that I did not see that I

266
00:09:40,310 --> 00:09:38,459
saw this

267
00:09:42,230 --> 00:09:40,320
so yeah that's that's kind of what we

268
00:09:43,850 --> 00:09:42,240
both saw very similar but subtle

269
00:09:45,829 --> 00:09:43,860
differences too and in fact to give you

270
00:09:47,690 --> 00:09:45,839
a bit more of the story when I turned

271
00:09:50,030 --> 00:09:47,700
around to come back to bed

272
00:09:52,009 --> 00:09:50,040
which again makes no sense

273
00:09:53,750 --> 00:09:52,019
because I remember feeling that sense of

274
00:09:55,610 --> 00:09:53,760
what is this what is going on but then I

275
00:09:58,130 --> 00:09:55,620
just turned around went back to bed as I

276
00:10:00,230 --> 00:09:58,140
did that my ex-wife saw this being come

277
00:10:02,150 --> 00:10:00,240
back through the wall proceed to walk

278
00:10:03,949 --> 00:10:02,160
down the front of the hotel room and

279
00:10:06,829 --> 00:10:03,959
then through the front door of the hotel

280
00:10:08,930 --> 00:10:06,839
uh room so we got one bed here another

281
00:10:10,910 --> 00:10:08,940
bed here sort of this passageway to the

282
00:10:12,050 --> 00:10:10,920
front door over here so walk down the

283
00:10:13,850 --> 00:10:12,060
hall and went right through the door so

284
00:10:15,949 --> 00:10:13,860
I didn't see any of that she saw that

285
00:10:18,230 --> 00:10:15,959
and that's again and then she woke or

286
00:10:20,030 --> 00:10:18,240
shook me out of my stupor and then we we

287
00:10:22,670 --> 00:10:20,040
talked it over and hightailed it out of

288
00:10:24,230 --> 00:10:22,680
there after that I bet what do you make

289
00:10:26,269 --> 00:10:24,240
the sort of the overlapping

290
00:10:28,070 --> 00:10:26,279
characteristics of the phenomenon I mean

291
00:10:29,449 --> 00:10:28,080
there's so much it's not just nuts and

292
00:10:31,790 --> 00:10:29,459
bolt craft anymore right you've got

293
00:10:33,290 --> 00:10:31,800
sightings non-human intelligence

294
00:10:35,570 --> 00:10:33,300
interactions you've got outer body

295
00:10:37,790 --> 00:10:35,580
experiences even when you get into the

296
00:10:41,210 --> 00:10:37,800
talk of Consciousness and parapsychology

297
00:10:43,250 --> 00:10:41,220
things like precognition or telekinesis

298
00:10:46,430 --> 00:10:43,260
what do you make of it are they all

299
00:10:48,769 --> 00:10:46,440
related or are they all individual just

300
00:10:50,630 --> 00:10:48,779
accessed at different levels of reality

301
00:10:52,670 --> 00:10:50,640
somehow what do you think

302
00:10:55,310 --> 00:10:52,680
yeah well what's interesting is it seems

303
00:10:57,230 --> 00:10:55,320
like any one of those different kinds of

304
00:10:59,810 --> 00:10:57,240
what are known as the contact modalities

305
00:11:02,090 --> 00:10:59,820
is what Ray Hernandez called them is any

306
00:11:04,370 --> 00:11:02,100
one of those can sort of trigger the

307
00:11:05,630 --> 00:11:04,380
arrival of the other ones yeah because

308
00:11:07,490 --> 00:11:05,640
someone who's had a near-death

309
00:11:09,769 --> 00:11:07,500
experience quite often afterwards will

310
00:11:11,269 --> 00:11:09,779
be able to sometimes see entities around

311
00:11:12,650 --> 00:11:11,279
sometimes in the corner of their eyes

312
00:11:14,030 --> 00:11:12,660
sometimes straight onto other people

313
00:11:15,650 --> 00:11:14,040
don't notice

314
00:11:17,930 --> 00:11:15,660
as you mentioned some people come back

315
00:11:19,370 --> 00:11:17,940
from a near-death experience or from an

316
00:11:20,150 --> 00:11:19,380
encounter with apparently non-human

317
00:11:22,009 --> 00:11:20,160
intelligence or at least

318
00:11:23,269 --> 00:11:22,019
non-conventionally human intelligence we

319
00:11:26,030 --> 00:11:23,279
can get into that later

320
00:11:28,370 --> 00:11:26,040
and they they both have precognitive

321
00:11:30,290 --> 00:11:28,380
dreams or precognitive visions and that

322
00:11:31,790 --> 00:11:30,300
kind of thing sometimes these people

323
00:11:33,710 --> 00:11:31,800
feel very frustrated by this because

324
00:11:35,090 --> 00:11:33,720
sometimes it's not in enough time to do

325
00:11:36,829 --> 00:11:35,100
anything about this kind of thing and

326
00:11:39,829 --> 00:11:36,839
it's not even necessarily precise enough

327
00:11:41,329 --> 00:11:39,839
to do anything about it to prevent it

328
00:11:43,790 --> 00:11:41,339
on the other hand I do know people

329
00:11:46,190 --> 00:11:43,800
personally experiencers who do sometimes

330
00:11:47,990 --> 00:11:46,200
have a premonition of something coming

331
00:11:49,850 --> 00:11:48,000
and then actually are able to at the

332
00:11:51,590 --> 00:11:49,860
last minute recognize they're in that

333
00:11:53,750 --> 00:11:51,600
very scenario and they are able to

334
00:11:54,889 --> 00:11:53,760
change their behavior subtly and avoid

335
00:11:56,329 --> 00:11:54,899
something that would have been not so

336
00:11:58,730 --> 00:11:56,339
good after all

337
00:12:00,410 --> 00:11:58,740
if they had not noticed that so yeah I

338
00:12:02,870 --> 00:12:00,420
think near-death experience Out of Body

339
00:12:04,970 --> 00:12:02,880
Experience parapsychological

340
00:12:06,949 --> 00:12:04,980
kind of features like precognition

341
00:12:09,230 --> 00:12:06,959
telekinesis

342
00:12:10,910 --> 00:12:09,240
all this kind of thing is somehow

343
00:12:13,490 --> 00:12:10,920
related it says something about I think

344
00:12:15,230 --> 00:12:13,500
broader reality and this is where I'm

345
00:12:18,290 --> 00:12:15,240
really fascinated by people like Donald

346
00:12:20,509 --> 00:12:18,300
Hoffman and his work in terms of

347
00:12:22,069 --> 00:12:20,519
him helping to us us to understand that

348
00:12:24,410 --> 00:12:22,079
what we actually perceive as everyday

349
00:12:26,930 --> 00:12:24,420
reality and consensus reality is

350
00:12:28,490 --> 00:12:26,940
actually not even just a slice of a much

351
00:12:30,889 --> 00:12:28,500
larger reality but actually a

352
00:12:33,590 --> 00:12:30,899
translation into a kind of interface

353
00:12:35,750 --> 00:12:33,600
with icons that allow us to navigate and

354
00:12:37,610 --> 00:12:35,760
stay alive and propagate the species but

355
00:12:40,009 --> 00:12:37,620
we're actually not seeing is base

356
00:12:41,449 --> 00:12:40,019
reality so when people have these

357
00:12:43,790 --> 00:12:41,459
experiences perhaps what they're seeing

358
00:12:44,930 --> 00:12:43,800
is more of what's all around us and this

359
00:12:47,090 --> 00:12:44,940
is one of the things I think science

360
00:12:48,590 --> 00:12:47,100
really needs to reckon with this is not

361
00:12:51,170 --> 00:12:48,600
about seeing things that are not really

362
00:12:53,389 --> 00:12:51,180
real but actually that perhaps what we

363
00:12:55,730 --> 00:12:53,399
perceive is not exactly real it's more

364
00:12:58,430 --> 00:12:55,740
like a translation an interphase not a

365
00:13:00,829 --> 00:12:58,440
one-to-one kind of analogy he uses the

366
00:13:03,710 --> 00:13:00,839
the analogy of a trash icon in your

367
00:13:05,810 --> 00:13:03,720
desktop screen that's useful we can use

368
00:13:08,150 --> 00:13:05,820
it to navigate and do things with files

369
00:13:09,829 --> 00:13:08,160
but of course the underlying reality of

370
00:13:11,269 --> 00:13:09,839
binary code and whatnot has nothing to

371
00:13:13,970 --> 00:13:11,279
do with the appearance of that trash

372
00:13:16,370 --> 00:13:13,980
icon so from his point of view and this

373
00:13:18,949 --> 00:13:16,380
is Bath backed up by mathematical proofs

374
00:13:20,750 --> 00:13:18,959
on top of that what we actually perceive

375
00:13:23,750 --> 00:13:20,760
as more like icons like that on a

376
00:13:25,009 --> 00:13:23,760
desktop screen we share those icons much

377
00:13:26,509 --> 00:13:25,019
of the time because we have the same

378
00:13:29,389 --> 00:13:26,519
evolutionary background and this is

379
00:13:31,069 --> 00:13:29,399
partly a product of evolution but this

380
00:13:32,389 --> 00:13:31,079
opens up some really interesting

381
00:13:34,610 --> 00:13:32,399
possibilities when we think about this

382
00:13:36,290 --> 00:13:34,620
phenomenon and people experiencing

383
00:13:38,810 --> 00:13:36,300
things that don't seem to fit within

384
00:13:41,449 --> 00:13:38,820
consensus reality again it may be

385
00:13:43,790 --> 00:13:41,459
because they don't render on our screen

386
00:13:45,350 --> 00:13:43,800
a perception but again the differences

387
00:13:47,090 --> 00:13:45,360
our screen of perception is not

388
00:13:49,430 --> 00:13:47,100
necessarily based reality in fact he

389
00:13:50,810 --> 00:13:49,440
says it's almost completely the case

390
00:13:53,509 --> 00:13:50,820
that it cannot be

391
00:13:56,030 --> 00:13:53,519
right even studying stuff like Jacque

392
00:13:58,190 --> 00:13:56,040
Valley like how many times these changes

393
00:14:00,350 --> 00:13:58,200
ideas or looked at different aspects of

394
00:14:02,690 --> 00:14:00,360
the phenomenon and he still doesn't even

395
00:14:05,090 --> 00:14:02,700
have a clear answer as to what this is

396
00:14:07,250 --> 00:14:05,100
like it's it seems to be almost like a

397
00:14:09,170 --> 00:14:07,260
like a non-practical joke but it almost

398
00:14:11,870 --> 00:14:09,180
seems like it's it's never ending like

399
00:14:13,910 --> 00:14:11,880
this is just way beyond our our pay

400
00:14:16,250 --> 00:14:13,920
grade or our understanding as a species

401
00:14:17,870 --> 00:14:16,260
you know because and we talk about this

402
00:14:19,790 --> 00:14:17,880
quite a bit with different people and

403
00:14:23,150 --> 00:14:19,800
you know you know this as much as we do

404
00:14:24,829 --> 00:14:23,160
but we all know our world based on the

405
00:14:27,170 --> 00:14:24,839
five senses that we have and our five

406
00:14:28,910 --> 00:14:27,180
senses are very limited we could only

407
00:14:30,230 --> 00:14:28,920
hear it to a certain frequency can only

408
00:14:32,269 --> 00:14:30,240
see a certain amount of the light

409
00:14:35,150 --> 00:14:32,279
spectrum like we're Limited

410
00:14:38,030 --> 00:14:35,160
and you're right maybe it exists in our

411
00:14:40,069 --> 00:14:38,040
reality in actually coexist with us it's

412
00:14:41,569 --> 00:14:40,079
just we can't see it no more than a

413
00:14:43,490 --> 00:14:41,579
bacteria can see when it's being

414
00:14:46,550 --> 00:14:43,500
observed by somebody in a microscope

415
00:14:48,230 --> 00:14:46,560
right so it's uh it's important it's

416
00:14:50,210 --> 00:14:48,240
it's important that we sort of put

417
00:14:51,710 --> 00:14:50,220
ourselves a little bit lower down the

418
00:14:54,350 --> 00:14:51,720
intelligence change that we thought we

419
00:14:56,389 --> 00:14:54,360
were and maybe admit that we're maybe

420
00:14:58,009 --> 00:14:56,399
not as high on a totem pole

421
00:15:00,470 --> 00:14:58,019
well and what's what's also interesting

422
00:15:02,990 --> 00:15:00,480
about that again Hoffman's point in his

423
00:15:04,790 --> 00:15:03,000
research is that science basically is a

424
00:15:06,889 --> 00:15:04,800
little bit unscientific about some of

425
00:15:08,750 --> 00:15:06,899
our assumptions because we have these

426
00:15:10,250 --> 00:15:08,760
intuitions that we trust because they're

427
00:15:12,350 --> 00:15:10,260
so close to us like you said the five

428
00:15:14,269 --> 00:15:12,360
senses that's all we've most of us

429
00:15:15,410 --> 00:15:14,279
that's all we've used to ever behold

430
00:15:17,930 --> 00:15:15,420
reality

431
00:15:20,090 --> 00:15:17,940
but if it turns out that research

432
00:15:21,829 --> 00:15:20,100
actually suggests is in the data in the

433
00:15:23,509 --> 00:15:21,839
mathematical theorems right when you run

434
00:15:25,670 --> 00:15:23,519
game theory and whatnot that's what he's

435
00:15:27,949 --> 00:15:25,680
done with his team

436
00:15:30,350 --> 00:15:27,959
it's not just unlikely that what we

437
00:15:32,030 --> 00:15:30,360
perceive as reality is not really the

438
00:15:34,850 --> 00:15:32,040
underlying construct but it's almost

439
00:15:37,370 --> 00:15:34,860
guaranteed it's not and this is one of

440
00:15:39,470 --> 00:15:37,380
the things that an assumption that

441
00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:39,480
science needs to get Beyond because the

442
00:15:43,189 --> 00:15:41,040
assumption is sure we don't see

443
00:15:45,889 --> 00:15:43,199
everything but what we see is accurate

444
00:15:48,290 --> 00:15:45,899
its representationally accurate right in

445
00:15:50,629 --> 00:15:48,300
in terms of allowing us to navigate in a

446
00:15:53,150 --> 00:15:50,639
way that keeps us alive but the point is

447
00:15:55,009 --> 00:15:53,160
the actual raw data is so immense

448
00:15:56,449 --> 00:15:55,019
there's so much volume to it that we

449
00:15:58,430 --> 00:15:56,459
would be completely overwhelmed we would

450
00:16:00,470 --> 00:15:58,440
have been eaten by lions our ancestors

451
00:16:01,910 --> 00:16:00,480
would have been and in fact he even goes

452
00:16:04,310 --> 00:16:01,920
as far as saying that perhaps the people

453
00:16:06,590 --> 00:16:04,320
who saw more of reality just didn't

454
00:16:09,110 --> 00:16:06,600
survive and they didn't propagate to

455
00:16:11,750 --> 00:16:09,120
have you know Offspring and so we by

456
00:16:13,610 --> 00:16:11,760
definition of being alive today are The

457
00:16:15,829 --> 00:16:13,620
Offspring of these ancestors who learn

458
00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:15,839
these shortcuts these these interface

459
00:16:20,629 --> 00:16:18,720
and icons that allow us to make our way

460
00:16:22,850 --> 00:16:20,639
through an incredibly diverse and

461
00:16:24,590 --> 00:16:22,860
complex array of data and we've learned

462
00:16:26,210 --> 00:16:24,600
to just see enough of it and hear enough

463
00:16:28,550 --> 00:16:26,220
of it and smell enough of it and touch

464
00:16:30,889 --> 00:16:28,560
enough of it that we can stay alive but

465
00:16:33,050 --> 00:16:30,899
again I think that opens up some really

466
00:16:35,210 --> 00:16:33,060
fascinating Avenues to pursue when you

467
00:16:36,650 --> 00:16:35,220
sort of pair those together because not

468
00:16:37,490 --> 00:16:36,660
only do people experience broader

469
00:16:39,650 --> 00:16:37,500
reality

470
00:16:41,150 --> 00:16:39,660
but as I'm sure you both know so many

471
00:16:42,910 --> 00:16:41,160
people come back from near-death

472
00:16:45,829 --> 00:16:42,920
experiences out of body experiences

473
00:16:47,509 --> 00:16:45,839
encounters with others and say that

474
00:16:49,670 --> 00:16:47,519
actually felt more real than this

475
00:16:52,310 --> 00:16:49,680
there's this element of more real than

476
00:16:53,810 --> 00:16:52,320
real and those situations than here what

477
00:16:55,610 --> 00:16:53,820
is that about these are things that we

478
00:16:56,329 --> 00:16:55,620
should uh we should pursue in research I

479
00:16:58,189 --> 00:16:56,339
think

480
00:17:00,350 --> 00:16:58,199
what are your thoughts on the sort of

481
00:17:02,210 --> 00:17:00,360
spiritual transformation that a lot of

482
00:17:04,309 --> 00:17:02,220
experiencers have even people that were

483
00:17:06,590 --> 00:17:04,319
atheists or don't consider themselves

484
00:17:08,449 --> 00:17:06,600
religious they almost have the same

485
00:17:11,270 --> 00:17:08,459
effects that you know people that are

486
00:17:13,490 --> 00:17:11,280
doing work with DMT or psilocybin where

487
00:17:16,250 --> 00:17:13,500
the chemical has a profound effect on

488
00:17:18,409 --> 00:17:16,260
the brain and on the reality well if you

489
00:17:20,750 --> 00:17:18,419
see a crafter you know have an exchange

490
00:17:22,970 --> 00:17:20,760
with an ET there's no drugs involved but

491
00:17:25,189 --> 00:17:22,980
somehow the brain has changed and we

492
00:17:28,069 --> 00:17:25,199
even chatted with like Gary Nolan and he

493
00:17:30,350 --> 00:17:28,079
talks about the the basal ganglia being

494
00:17:32,450 --> 00:17:30,360
changed and like Dr Bob Davis saying

495
00:17:34,669 --> 00:17:32,460
they do EEG scans on people that are

496
00:17:36,590 --> 00:17:34,679
Clairvoyant and there's like random

497
00:17:38,810 --> 00:17:36,600
parts of the brain that will communicate

498
00:17:40,970 --> 00:17:38,820
with the whole brain and very anomalous

499
00:17:43,010 --> 00:17:40,980
things so what are your thoughts not

500
00:17:46,070 --> 00:17:43,020
specifically like religion in this case

501
00:17:48,650 --> 00:17:46,080
but like just the spiritual world people

502
00:17:50,270 --> 00:17:48,660
seem to unlock when they have crazy

503
00:17:52,549 --> 00:17:50,280
encounters

504
00:17:54,490 --> 00:17:52,559
right I think what that speaks to is

505
00:17:56,990 --> 00:17:54,500
that again I think in our in our

506
00:17:59,870 --> 00:17:57,000
truncated understanding of reality and

507
00:18:01,970 --> 00:17:59,880
experience of reality we buy into this

508
00:18:03,350 --> 00:18:01,980
illusion of being separate selves right

509
00:18:05,750 --> 00:18:03,360
so this is where my my background

510
00:18:09,890 --> 00:18:05,760
non-duality comes in the more we believe

511
00:18:11,390 --> 00:18:09,900
that a Body Mind Is All We Are end of

512
00:18:12,890 --> 00:18:11,400
the story when when that body mind

513
00:18:15,110 --> 00:18:12,900
dissolves there's nothing to us there's

514
00:18:16,909 --> 00:18:15,120
nothing to our Consciousness then that's

515
00:18:18,529 --> 00:18:16,919
going to fundamentally change our

516
00:18:19,190 --> 00:18:18,539
relationship with reality and with each

517
00:18:20,870 --> 00:18:19,200
other

518
00:18:23,150 --> 00:18:20,880
but what happens in like you say in

519
00:18:26,090 --> 00:18:23,160
psychedelic experiences and encounters

520
00:18:27,650 --> 00:18:26,100
with the others in you know different

521
00:18:28,669 --> 00:18:27,660
parapsychological experiences people

522
00:18:30,350 --> 00:18:28,679
have

523
00:18:32,810 --> 00:18:30,360
they suddenly

524
00:18:34,610 --> 00:18:32,820
change their view on reality they

525
00:18:36,350 --> 00:18:34,620
changed their view on their relationship

526
00:18:38,690 --> 00:18:36,360
with reality and each other the question

527
00:18:40,789 --> 00:18:38,700
is why I would suggest that actually

528
00:18:42,289 --> 00:18:40,799
everything is connected again things

529
00:18:43,430 --> 00:18:42,299
like quantum physics are pointing in

530
00:18:46,669 --> 00:18:43,440
this direction and have been for about

531
00:18:48,350 --> 00:18:46,679
100 years right where does the rock that

532
00:18:50,150 --> 00:18:48,360
you know splintered off in the mountains

533
00:18:52,130 --> 00:18:50,160
separate from the mountain that it's a

534
00:18:53,810 --> 00:18:52,140
part of and to what degree is that

535
00:18:55,730 --> 00:18:53,820
mountain separate from the Bedrock that

536
00:18:57,169 --> 00:18:55,740
makes up you know a continent and what

537
00:18:59,510 --> 00:18:57,179
degree is that continent separate from

538
00:19:01,510 --> 00:18:59,520
the earth goes on and on the more we get

539
00:19:03,950 --> 00:19:01,520
down to these really fundamental

540
00:19:05,330 --> 00:19:03,960
minuscule particles of nature it seems

541
00:19:07,430 --> 00:19:05,340
like there's not even much there there's

542
00:19:09,950 --> 00:19:07,440
no solidity there there's just fields

543
00:19:12,049 --> 00:19:09,960
and energy that manifest like a

544
00:19:13,970 --> 00:19:12,059
Whirlpool is a manifestation of water

545
00:19:16,789 --> 00:19:13,980
but ultimately the whirlpool is just

546
00:19:18,529 --> 00:19:16,799
water so in the ultimate sense I would

547
00:19:20,029 --> 00:19:18,539
suggest this is pointing to everything

548
00:19:23,210 --> 00:19:20,039
being connected everything ultimately

549
00:19:25,370 --> 00:19:23,220
being one and part of the Illusion part

550
00:19:27,590 --> 00:19:25,380
of the sort of secondary reality we

551
00:19:29,990 --> 00:19:27,600
experience is that we are separate and

552
00:19:32,270 --> 00:19:30,000
so when you experience that Oneness that

553
00:19:33,950 --> 00:19:32,280
Unity that sense of being connected to

554
00:19:35,930 --> 00:19:33,960
everything the same way that it wouldn't

555
00:19:38,090 --> 00:19:35,940
make any sense for me to slice my left

556
00:19:40,130 --> 00:19:38,100
arm because it took a cookie that my

557
00:19:41,630 --> 00:19:40,140
right arm wanted that makes no sense in

558
00:19:43,310 --> 00:19:41,640
the same way when we once once we start

559
00:19:44,990 --> 00:19:43,320
seeing each other that way and these

560
00:19:47,930 --> 00:19:45,000
others that way and everything around us

561
00:19:51,350 --> 00:19:47,940
it fundamentally changes our perspective

562
00:19:53,990 --> 00:19:51,360
and inherently is spiritual because you

563
00:19:55,850 --> 00:19:54,000
feel you feel it's not just a cognitive

564
00:19:58,190 --> 00:19:55,860
sense in fact it's not really cognitive

565
00:19:59,630 --> 00:19:58,200
at all it's a failed sense a somatic

566
00:20:01,190 --> 00:19:59,640
embodiment of this connection to

567
00:20:02,810 --> 00:20:01,200
everything and I think that's what

568
00:20:05,150 --> 00:20:02,820
happens across all of those experiences

569
00:20:07,430 --> 00:20:05,160
so you think this is like a big bang

570
00:20:09,230 --> 00:20:07,440
entanglement related thing why they're

571
00:20:11,570 --> 00:20:09,240
we're all from that Singularity is that

572
00:20:13,070 --> 00:20:11,580
how you does that make sense in terms of

573
00:20:14,570 --> 00:20:13,080
why we are all one or do you think it's

574
00:20:16,190 --> 00:20:14,580
on like a Consciousness level we're all

575
00:20:18,470 --> 00:20:16,200
one yeah I think it's on a Consciousness

576
00:20:21,350 --> 00:20:18,480
level I go deeper than that I think we

577
00:20:24,470 --> 00:20:21,360
can see correlation we correlations

578
00:20:26,570 --> 00:20:24,480
um sort of secondary representations in

579
00:20:27,950 --> 00:20:26,580
what we conceive of as physical reality

580
00:20:29,750 --> 00:20:27,960
but one of the things I've talked about

581
00:20:32,690 --> 00:20:29,760
my podcast is you have Cutting Edge

582
00:20:33,950 --> 00:20:32,700
physicists like Mima arkani Hamed who

583
00:20:35,810 --> 00:20:33,960
are saying and this is they have nothing

584
00:20:38,330 --> 00:20:35,820
to do with the UFO phenomenon nothing to

585
00:20:40,970 --> 00:20:38,340
do with paranormality but he is saying

586
00:20:44,210 --> 00:20:40,980
space time is doomed what he means by

587
00:20:46,370 --> 00:20:44,220
that is that as an explanatory model for

588
00:20:48,770 --> 00:20:46,380
reality it does not work it's not even

589
00:20:51,890 --> 00:20:48,780
tenable and it's been that way for a

590
00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:51,900
while but because in society we get very

591
00:20:56,690 --> 00:20:53,760
accustomed to thinking in terms of a

592
00:20:58,490 --> 00:20:56,700
physical reality it's dying slowly but

593
00:21:00,110 --> 00:20:58,500
his point it's already dead we need to

594
00:21:02,690 --> 00:21:00,120
look to a deeper structure from which

595
00:21:05,390 --> 00:21:02,700
you get derivative aspects like Spanish

596
00:21:07,250 --> 00:21:05,400
time and quantum theory so yes I think

597
00:21:09,890 --> 00:21:07,260
we see it in something like the big bang

598
00:21:11,990 --> 00:21:09,900
it's a secondary approximation of what's

599
00:21:13,970 --> 00:21:12,000
happening in a deep Perkins construct

600
00:21:15,529 --> 00:21:13,980
where I think Consciousness is probably

601
00:21:16,789 --> 00:21:15,539
primary that's kind of my working model

602
00:21:19,610 --> 00:21:16,799
anyway

603
00:21:21,049 --> 00:21:19,620
yeah and with you know all the data

604
00:21:23,210 --> 00:21:21,059
research that we've had you know from

605
00:21:25,789 --> 00:21:23,220
the stuff that uh John Mack Bud Hopkins

606
00:21:26,930 --> 00:21:25,799
and and other investigators and

607
00:21:28,730 --> 00:21:26,940
researchers in this field have

608
00:21:31,310 --> 00:21:28,740
discovered is that most of the people

609
00:21:33,230 --> 00:21:31,320
that have had these experiences or these

610
00:21:34,490 --> 00:21:33,240
anomalies take place over you know

611
00:21:35,990 --> 00:21:34,500
several occurrences throughout their

612
00:21:38,330 --> 00:21:36,000
lives

613
00:21:40,130 --> 00:21:38,340
you know from all walks of life there's

614
00:21:42,169 --> 00:21:40,140
no you know we used to make jokes back

615
00:21:45,230 --> 00:21:42,179
in the 90s on TV and stuff like that it

616
00:21:47,330 --> 00:21:45,240
was some guy in the South you know just

617
00:21:49,610 --> 00:21:47,340
you know Farm going well they landed in

618
00:21:51,350 --> 00:21:49,620
my backyard and that was the joke but

619
00:21:54,110 --> 00:21:51,360
honestly people that are experiencing

620
00:21:57,230 --> 00:21:54,120
this are like judges you know Hollywood

621
00:21:59,690 --> 00:21:57,240
Executives and you know big names small

622
00:22:01,430 --> 00:21:59,700
names could be firefighters policemen

623
00:22:04,909 --> 00:22:01,440
you know people that we respect in our

624
00:22:06,230 --> 00:22:04,919
society are having these experiences but

625
00:22:07,730 --> 00:22:06,240
yet they're told not to talk about

626
00:22:09,710 --> 00:22:07,740
because the rest of us are not going to

627
00:22:11,149 --> 00:22:09,720
believe in them but it's becoming a lot

628
00:22:13,190 --> 00:22:11,159
more talked about people are coming

629
00:22:15,529 --> 00:22:13,200
forward a lot more now talking about

630
00:22:18,110 --> 00:22:15,539
these experiences and we realize how

631
00:22:20,690 --> 00:22:18,120
many of us or I can't say us like myself

632
00:22:23,090 --> 00:22:20,700
included but how many experiencers are

633
00:22:25,010 --> 00:22:23,100
out there um there was a Roper poll back

634
00:22:28,730 --> 00:22:25,020
in the 1990s that said one out of 50

635
00:22:30,950 --> 00:22:28,740
people could be abductees one out of 50.

636
00:22:34,070 --> 00:22:30,960
that is a lot of people on this planet

637
00:22:35,390 --> 00:22:34,080
right that's like six and 6.6 million

638
00:22:37,610 --> 00:22:35,400
Americans or something like that right

639
00:22:40,730 --> 00:22:37,620
ridiculous but it globally how many

640
00:22:42,590 --> 00:22:40,740
people is that Global it's crazy so you

641
00:22:44,510 --> 00:22:42,600
know the fact that this is happening a

642
00:22:46,490 --> 00:22:44,520
lot more than we think it is and we

643
00:22:48,830 --> 00:22:46,500
joked around it's either it's a mental

644
00:22:50,630 --> 00:22:48,840
illness that we've never studied before

645
00:22:53,930 --> 00:22:50,640
but is obviously rampant throughout

646
00:22:55,730 --> 00:22:53,940
Humanity or it's really happening

647
00:22:57,529 --> 00:22:55,740
I don't see there's an in-between in

648
00:22:59,810 --> 00:22:57,539
there at all do you

649
00:23:01,669 --> 00:22:59,820
no and and I think again one thing that

650
00:23:03,710 --> 00:23:01,679
John Mack really helped to establish is

651
00:23:07,370 --> 00:23:03,720
that this is not Psychopathology these

652
00:23:09,110 --> 00:23:07,380
people are credible sane people who

653
00:23:11,690 --> 00:23:09,120
only sought him out because they were

654
00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:11,700
experiencing aspects of reality that our

655
00:23:15,710 --> 00:23:14,400
society had no place for I know people

656
00:23:18,169 --> 00:23:15,720
personally that were involved with him

657
00:23:21,649 --> 00:23:18,179
back in the 90s who tried to go to NASA

658
00:23:23,029 --> 00:23:21,659
first try to go to scientists first and

659
00:23:25,190 --> 00:23:23,039
we just sort of laughed out of those

660
00:23:27,830 --> 00:23:25,200
those circles so they had nowhere to go

661
00:23:29,930 --> 00:23:27,840
but John Mack because he developed a bit

662
00:23:31,490 --> 00:23:29,940
of a reputation as being open to hearing

663
00:23:33,950 --> 00:23:31,500
about this and actually considering it

664
00:23:36,409 --> 00:23:33,960
as something valid and real in some way

665
00:23:38,870 --> 00:23:36,419
even if the way it's real stretches our

666
00:23:40,789 --> 00:23:38,880
very understanding of what reality is if

667
00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:40,799
it's your your earlier point

668
00:23:43,850 --> 00:23:42,960
absolutely it's fascinating because we

669
00:23:45,590 --> 00:23:43,860
know

670
00:23:47,390 --> 00:23:45,600
not only is there behavioral control

671
00:23:50,029 --> 00:23:47,400
like what happened in my case but

672
00:23:53,090 --> 00:23:50,039
there's also memory control there's

673
00:23:55,070 --> 00:23:53,100
screen memories right so we don't know

674
00:23:56,870 --> 00:23:55,080
how many people that are reporting

675
00:23:58,909 --> 00:23:56,880
themselves as experiencers that might

676
00:24:01,070 --> 00:23:58,919
just be a small slice of a much larger

677
00:24:02,570 --> 00:24:01,080
population you could make the argument

678
00:24:05,090 --> 00:24:02,580
because we don't have any evidence to

679
00:24:06,710 --> 00:24:05,100
the contrary that perhaps perhaps most

680
00:24:09,529 --> 00:24:06,720
people are having these experiences and

681
00:24:11,630 --> 00:24:09,539
only a subset actually remember them in

682
00:24:13,789 --> 00:24:11,640
fact there's some evidence that

683
00:24:16,130 --> 00:24:13,799
people who've had disassociative

684
00:24:17,990 --> 00:24:16,140
experiences as children for instance in

685
00:24:19,669 --> 00:24:18,000
child abuse or some sort of traumatic

686
00:24:22,250 --> 00:24:19,679
experience where they learn to

687
00:24:24,590 --> 00:24:22,260
disassociate sometimes there seems to be

688
00:24:27,649 --> 00:24:24,600
some evidence that those people not only

689
00:24:29,810 --> 00:24:27,659
can disassociate easier which makes us

690
00:24:31,669 --> 00:24:29,820
wonder is it possible that they are more

691
00:24:33,529 --> 00:24:31,679
prone to these experiences of other

692
00:24:36,830 --> 00:24:33,539
elements to reality because they can

693
00:24:39,049 --> 00:24:36,840
disassociate and or is it the case that

694
00:24:40,430 --> 00:24:39,059
they just can remember more because

695
00:24:41,810 --> 00:24:40,440
they've learned to disassociate like

696
00:24:44,330 --> 00:24:41,820
that and the rest of us just perhaps

697
00:24:46,250 --> 00:24:44,340
just don't remember it's possible I am

698
00:24:48,169 --> 00:24:46,260
and Jason you mentioned the whole uh

699
00:24:49,850 --> 00:24:48,179
mental illness thing and John Mack

700
00:24:52,490 --> 00:24:49,860
looked at that in the early 90s he just

701
00:24:54,049 --> 00:24:52,500
study 200 men and women and initially he

702
00:24:56,210 --> 00:24:54,059
thought it must be some kind of mental

703
00:24:58,070 --> 00:24:56,220
illness until there was no evidence of

704
00:25:00,230 --> 00:24:58,080
that right so a lot of people say well

705
00:25:01,909 --> 00:25:00,240
you know where's the evidence of UFOs or

706
00:25:03,529 --> 00:25:01,919
this or that well you know there's

707
00:25:05,870 --> 00:25:03,539
there's no evidence one way or the other

708
00:25:08,690 --> 00:25:05,880
but somebody's already looked into the

709
00:25:10,430 --> 00:25:08,700
fact that this could be a psychiatric

710
00:25:12,770 --> 00:25:10,440
issue you know like one of the top

711
00:25:14,450 --> 00:25:12,780
psychiatrists in the world so it's easy

712
00:25:16,490 --> 00:25:14,460
to just throw it away and say well

713
00:25:17,930 --> 00:25:16,500
people are crazy when they see these

714
00:25:20,210 --> 00:25:17,940
things no no one of the best and

715
00:25:22,130 --> 00:25:20,220
brightest has already gone there and we

716
00:25:24,710 --> 00:25:22,140
can almost safely take off that box

717
00:25:27,110 --> 00:25:24,720
right it's I think it's so far of spread

718
00:25:28,850 --> 00:25:27,120
that it would be the numbers would far

719
00:25:30,890 --> 00:25:28,860
exceed any other psychiatric illness

720
00:25:32,630 --> 00:25:30,900
that we know of and maybe Darren you

721
00:25:35,510 --> 00:25:32,640
could shed some light on that too as the

722
00:25:37,789 --> 00:25:35,520
as more of an expert on this than we are

723
00:25:40,070 --> 00:25:37,799
yeah indeed and not only did did John

724
00:25:41,450 --> 00:25:40,080
vouch for these people's sanity and

725
00:25:43,789 --> 00:25:41,460
their credibility but he would often

726
00:25:45,769 --> 00:25:43,799
bring in other therapists to put people

727
00:25:47,930 --> 00:25:45,779
through a battery of tests because he

728
00:25:49,610 --> 00:25:47,940
didn't want to be just rely on his

729
00:25:50,990 --> 00:25:49,620
subjective impression of them because

730
00:25:53,090 --> 00:25:51,000
some people might say well you're

731
00:25:54,529 --> 00:25:53,100
sympathetic so maybe you're biased so he

732
00:25:56,149 --> 00:25:54,539
would actually have other therapists

733
00:25:57,409 --> 00:25:56,159
come in put them through a battery of

734
00:25:59,090 --> 00:25:57,419
tests and

735
00:26:00,649 --> 00:25:59,100
you know they just did not find that

736
00:26:03,169 --> 00:26:00,659
these people were suffering from any

737
00:26:05,870 --> 00:26:03,179
kind of pathology of course what's

738
00:26:09,769 --> 00:26:05,880
interesting is when John was kind of put

739
00:26:11,330 --> 00:26:09,779
through a bit of a tribunal at Harvard

740
00:26:12,769 --> 00:26:11,340
it's interesting that people came up to

741
00:26:15,950 --> 00:26:12,779
him afterwards that were involved with

742
00:26:18,010 --> 00:26:15,960
the tribunal and said to him you know if

743
00:26:20,029 --> 00:26:18,020
you had just identified a new kind of

744
00:26:21,769 --> 00:26:20,039
Psychopathology that we need to include

745
00:26:23,390 --> 00:26:21,779
in the DSM you know that would be fine

746
00:26:25,250 --> 00:26:23,400
but instead you asked us to reconsider

747
00:26:27,230 --> 00:26:25,260
our Notions of reality

748
00:26:30,230 --> 00:26:27,240
but indeed that's exactly what this

749
00:26:32,330 --> 00:26:30,240
phenomenon asks us to do so

750
00:26:35,029 --> 00:26:32,340
that's where we are and as you mentioned

751
00:26:37,850 --> 00:26:35,039
earlier this attack you know this is for

752
00:26:39,470 --> 00:26:37,860
everyone across all walks of life and to

753
00:26:41,930 --> 00:26:39,480
your point it's just that some people

754
00:26:44,390 --> 00:26:41,940
feel more able to come forward people

755
00:26:46,070 --> 00:26:44,400
who are on professional circles the more

756
00:26:48,289 --> 00:26:46,080
you're sort of like a white color kind

757
00:26:49,370 --> 00:26:48,299
of worker and above kind of thing you're

758
00:26:50,930 --> 00:26:49,380
not going to want to talk about this

759
00:26:53,810 --> 00:26:50,940
because people will assume you're crazy

760
00:26:55,549 --> 00:26:53,820
so we hear sort of an abundance of

761
00:26:57,169 --> 00:26:55,559
information coming up from people who

762
00:26:58,549 --> 00:26:57,179
maybe aren't concerned about those

763
00:26:59,450 --> 00:26:58,559
things they're just truth tellers

764
00:27:02,269 --> 00:26:59,460
they're not concerned about their

765
00:27:03,470 --> 00:27:02,279
reputation in society and whatnot but

766
00:27:05,090 --> 00:27:03,480
yeah if you think about the number of

767
00:27:07,430 --> 00:27:05,100
people who are not coming forward or

768
00:27:09,230 --> 00:27:07,440
have not historically but maybe now are

769
00:27:10,490 --> 00:27:09,240
beginning to because this is all

770
00:27:12,649 --> 00:27:10,500
changing

771
00:27:14,149 --> 00:27:12,659
and then it raises some interesting

772
00:27:16,430 --> 00:27:14,159
questions for me around

773
00:27:18,529 --> 00:27:16,440
how does our civilization-wide

774
00:27:21,169 --> 00:27:18,539
relationship with reality and with

775
00:27:23,029 --> 00:27:21,179
elements of this phenomenon change as

776
00:27:24,890 --> 00:27:23,039
more and more people come forward in

777
00:27:26,390 --> 00:27:24,900
other words in what way does our

778
00:27:28,549 --> 00:27:26,400
Consciousness interface with this

779
00:27:30,710 --> 00:27:28,559
phenomenon and the two together kind of

780
00:27:32,330 --> 00:27:30,720
create a reality construct and what

781
00:27:33,710 --> 00:27:32,340
happens when you suddenly have millions

782
00:27:36,230 --> 00:27:33,720
and hundreds of millions of people

783
00:27:37,909 --> 00:27:36,240
perhaps even billions beginning to

784
00:27:40,250 --> 00:27:37,919
really reckon with this once we have

785
00:27:41,990 --> 00:27:40,260
some sort of official acknowledgment

786
00:27:43,610 --> 00:27:42,000
not just the fact that we're seeing

787
00:27:46,010 --> 00:27:43,620
things in the sky but that there are

788
00:27:47,810 --> 00:27:46,020
apparently beings of a non-conventional

789
00:27:50,570 --> 00:27:47,820
nature that are here as well

790
00:27:52,070 --> 00:27:50,580
yeah and that's a scarier bit right

791
00:27:55,070 --> 00:27:52,080
there is the beings right because the

792
00:27:57,169 --> 00:27:55,080
technology and anybody can see a UFO and

793
00:27:59,149 --> 00:27:57,179
be amazed because you're not close to it

794
00:28:01,909 --> 00:27:59,159
but it's the people that get close to

795
00:28:04,370 --> 00:28:01,919
these crafts or when the crafts land and

796
00:28:06,110 --> 00:28:04,380
they interact with people or on some

797
00:28:07,610 --> 00:28:06,120
occasions take them without their

798
00:28:10,610 --> 00:28:07,620
consent

799
00:28:12,289 --> 00:28:10,620
what you know that part fascinates me

800
00:28:14,690 --> 00:28:12,299
because a lot of people have you know

801
00:28:16,190 --> 00:28:14,700
obviously the nighttime visitations is

802
00:28:19,130 --> 00:28:16,200
in the currents and it's always around

803
00:28:20,390 --> 00:28:19,140
two three o'clock in the morning that

804
00:28:22,130 --> 00:28:20,400
makes sense that's when everybody's

805
00:28:23,390 --> 00:28:22,140
asleep and you have less chances of

806
00:28:25,490 --> 00:28:23,400
being spotted

807
00:28:30,049 --> 00:28:25,500
it's brilliant but they keep that

808
00:28:32,169 --> 00:28:30,059
schedule going 24 7. this is an ongoing

809
00:28:34,850 --> 00:28:32,179
thing that they seem to do every day

810
00:28:36,350 --> 00:28:34,860
non-stop they just go around not the

811
00:28:38,330 --> 00:28:36,360
same people over and over again but they

812
00:28:40,490 --> 00:28:38,340
have a schedule they sort of have

813
00:28:41,870 --> 00:28:40,500
just like rats in the lab do you have to

814
00:28:43,730 --> 00:28:41,880
go through a certain amount every day

815
00:28:45,649 --> 00:28:43,740
and do your thing that's what they're

816
00:28:47,330 --> 00:28:45,659
doing to us our seems to be that they're

817
00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:47,340
doing to us now it's not just the

818
00:28:51,289 --> 00:28:49,200
nighttime visitations being woken up in

819
00:28:52,789 --> 00:28:51,299
the middle of the night usually there's

820
00:28:54,649 --> 00:28:52,799
three entities this is something that we

821
00:28:56,510 --> 00:28:54,659
found as a commonality is that there's

822
00:28:58,610 --> 00:28:56,520
always three entities they seem to come

823
00:29:00,409 --> 00:28:58,620
in pairs of threes

824
00:29:02,090 --> 00:29:00,419
um but it's the people that are awake

825
00:29:04,190 --> 00:29:02,100
like people that are driving down the

826
00:29:06,409 --> 00:29:04,200
road like the the Barney and Betty Hill

827
00:29:08,570 --> 00:29:06,419
and so many other countless stories

828
00:29:10,630 --> 00:29:08,580
since where people earn cars and the

829
00:29:13,070 --> 00:29:10,640
whole family experiences

830
00:29:14,990 --> 00:29:13,080
an abduction right the whole family

831
00:29:16,669 --> 00:29:15,000
experiences or the Allagash incident

832
00:29:18,590 --> 00:29:16,679
where the I think it was two twin

833
00:29:20,389 --> 00:29:18,600
brothers and two friends

834
00:29:23,029 --> 00:29:20,399
were all taken at the same time on the

835
00:29:24,889 --> 00:29:23,039
boat so those people fascinate me

836
00:29:27,230 --> 00:29:24,899
because they were fully awake it's not a

837
00:29:28,370 --> 00:29:27,240
sleep paralysis it's not something that

838
00:29:29,630 --> 00:29:28,380
happens in the middle of the night that

839
00:29:31,669 --> 00:29:29,640
maybe your brain wakes up and you're

840
00:29:33,769 --> 00:29:31,679
still half asleep these are fully awake

841
00:29:37,070 --> 00:29:33,779
people having the same experiences as

842
00:29:39,710 --> 00:29:37,080
those that report having visitations at

843
00:29:41,450 --> 00:29:39,720
night that's a fascinating story they're

844
00:29:42,590 --> 00:29:41,460
not different they're they're both

845
00:29:45,230 --> 00:29:42,600
involve the same thing medical

846
00:29:47,990 --> 00:29:45,240
examinations and Darren what fascinates

847
00:29:50,450 --> 00:29:48,000
us too is these ships have medical rooms

848
00:29:52,669 --> 00:29:50,460
they're designed to have a human lay on

849
00:29:54,590 --> 00:29:52,679
this table and have devices come out I

850
00:29:57,649 --> 00:29:54,600
mean it's a big operation very costly

851
00:29:58,970 --> 00:29:57,659
operation right so this is what's crazy

852
00:30:01,130 --> 00:29:58,980
because when you start thinking about

853
00:30:02,210 --> 00:30:01,140
how big an operation this must be for

854
00:30:05,029 --> 00:30:02,220
them

855
00:30:06,649 --> 00:30:05,039
we have to be a big deal we have to be

856
00:30:08,269 --> 00:30:06,659
there's a reason why they're here why

857
00:30:10,370 --> 00:30:08,279
they're spending this much money on us

858
00:30:13,389 --> 00:30:10,380
and time

859
00:30:15,350 --> 00:30:13,399
indeed and I think your point about

860
00:30:17,090 --> 00:30:15,360
abductions that happen in broad daylight

861
00:30:18,889 --> 00:30:17,100
while people are driving their cars is a

862
00:30:21,110 --> 00:30:18,899
point well taken and I think again

863
00:30:24,649 --> 00:30:21,120
Skeptics will say like you said you know

864
00:30:26,570 --> 00:30:24,659
slip sleep paralysis you know hypnagogic

865
00:30:29,450 --> 00:30:26,580
experiences that that explains all of

866
00:30:31,610 --> 00:30:29,460
this right but no there are people that

867
00:30:33,110 --> 00:30:31,620
have this happen in broad daylight

868
00:30:36,169 --> 00:30:33,120
and again I think this speaks to the

869
00:30:38,990 --> 00:30:36,179
fact that they are seen basically when

870
00:30:40,370 --> 00:30:39,000
they want to be seen and it's not just

871
00:30:42,649 --> 00:30:40,380
about

872
00:30:44,029 --> 00:30:42,659
you know cloaking their craft although I

873
00:30:46,250 --> 00:30:44,039
I think there's evidence they can do

874
00:30:47,570 --> 00:30:46,260
that as well but they don't even need to

875
00:30:50,269 --> 00:30:47,580
do it at that level because they can

876
00:30:51,889 --> 00:30:50,279
just directly control our perception so

877
00:30:54,669 --> 00:30:51,899
you can have someone driving down the

878
00:30:57,769 --> 00:30:54,679
I-5 in California in a busy LA traffic

879
00:30:59,510 --> 00:30:57,779
and three people perhaps might see a

880
00:31:02,330 --> 00:30:59,520
giant Mothership that's like covering

881
00:31:04,970 --> 00:31:02,340
the interstate no one else sees it right

882
00:31:07,190 --> 00:31:04,980
so this speaks to the degree of control

883
00:31:08,930 --> 00:31:07,200
they have and it also raises again some

884
00:31:11,269 --> 00:31:08,940
really interesting questions of what is

885
00:31:12,710 --> 00:31:11,279
reality what is physical reality is It

886
00:31:15,470 --> 00:31:12,720
ultimately physical

887
00:31:18,110 --> 00:31:15,480
when we have dreams we experience

888
00:31:21,230 --> 00:31:18,120
physicality we don't say to ourselves

889
00:31:23,810 --> 00:31:21,240
this is all just phenomological uh

890
00:31:25,909 --> 00:31:23,820
byproducts of mental firings in my brain

891
00:31:27,710 --> 00:31:25,919
we assume it's it's a real physical

892
00:31:29,630 --> 00:31:27,720
experience and then when we wake up we

893
00:31:32,090 --> 00:31:29,640
go okay phew I'm back in the real

894
00:31:34,310 --> 00:31:32,100
physical world but the thing is we have

895
00:31:36,110 --> 00:31:34,320
no way of really knowing that because we

896
00:31:38,029 --> 00:31:36,120
have no way of separating ourselves from

897
00:31:40,070 --> 00:31:38,039
the experiment to try to isolate

898
00:31:42,529 --> 00:31:40,080
variables and determine that because

899
00:31:44,090 --> 00:31:42,539
again even quantum theory points to this

900
00:31:45,590 --> 00:31:44,100
too we are

901
00:31:47,810 --> 00:31:45,600
you know wrapped up with the entire

902
00:31:49,730 --> 00:31:47,820
thing the entire thing is entangled so

903
00:31:52,130 --> 00:31:49,740
there is no way to do that so we have

904
00:31:54,590 --> 00:31:52,140
the impression I certainly have a strong

905
00:31:56,090 --> 00:31:54,600
impression of a physical reality that

906
00:31:58,970 --> 00:31:56,100
seems separate from us but again we

907
00:32:01,010 --> 00:31:58,980
don't really know that and in some ways

908
00:32:02,690 --> 00:32:01,020
I think Bernardo Castro we've talked

909
00:32:04,070 --> 00:32:02,700
before we went on about philosophy and

910
00:32:06,470 --> 00:32:04,080
bringing philosophy back into this

911
00:32:08,149 --> 00:32:06,480
question and that this uh entire

912
00:32:09,769 --> 00:32:08,159
research Endeavor and I absolutely agree

913
00:32:11,870 --> 00:32:09,779
with that and he's one of my favorite

914
00:32:12,830 --> 00:32:11,880
philosophers and I lean towards idealism

915
00:32:15,710 --> 00:32:12,840
now

916
00:32:17,510 --> 00:32:15,720
that basically realities is mental in

917
00:32:20,230 --> 00:32:17,520
nature and this is more like a

918
00:32:24,169 --> 00:32:20,240
Dreamscape it has consistency to it

919
00:32:26,210 --> 00:32:24,179
because we exist within a like a larger

920
00:32:27,649 --> 00:32:26,220
mind mind at large is what he would call

921
00:32:29,570 --> 00:32:27,659
it some people might call it the mind of

922
00:32:32,930 --> 00:32:29,580
God whatever you want to say

923
00:32:35,810 --> 00:32:32,940
but all that we see and touch and feel

924
00:32:37,490 --> 00:32:35,820
in physical reality could easily be all

925
00:32:39,409 --> 00:32:37,500
of that so

926
00:32:43,010 --> 00:32:39,419
if that's true and these others have

927
00:32:45,889 --> 00:32:43,020
learned how to work at that substrate

928
00:32:48,529 --> 00:32:45,899
level then they can in the same way you

929
00:32:50,630 --> 00:32:48,539
can in a dream they can suggest things

930
00:32:52,450 --> 00:32:50,640
they can manipulate the Dreamscape of

931
00:32:55,130 --> 00:32:52,460
itself so you have situations like that

932
00:32:56,389 --> 00:32:55,140
where again three people in broad

933
00:32:57,889 --> 00:32:56,399
daylight so you have a Mothership and

934
00:33:01,070 --> 00:32:57,899
nobody else sees it I've had experiences

935
00:33:02,690 --> 00:33:01,080
myself where I've had sightings that you

936
00:33:06,289 --> 00:33:02,700
know a quarter of the sky that lights up

937
00:33:08,510 --> 00:33:06,299
just like a light bulb and I'm thinking

938
00:33:10,310 --> 00:33:08,520
to myself why is everyone not calling

939
00:33:12,590 --> 00:33:10,320
you know the Air Force and whatnot

940
00:33:14,029 --> 00:33:12,600
saying what is that because I'm seeing

941
00:33:16,070 --> 00:33:14,039
and two other people with me are seeing

942
00:33:18,649 --> 00:33:16,080
it and no one else is what does that

943
00:33:19,909 --> 00:33:18,659
mean not just about the phenomenon but

944
00:33:21,529 --> 00:33:19,919
the nature of reality these are

945
00:33:23,029 --> 00:33:21,539
questions I think occur to me that I

946
00:33:25,310 --> 00:33:23,039
think we really need to broaden the

947
00:33:26,810 --> 00:33:25,320
scope and and go there

948
00:33:29,210 --> 00:33:26,820
you know we chat with a lot of people

949
00:33:31,789 --> 00:33:29,220
that have had experiences seeing things

950
00:33:33,889 --> 00:33:31,799
and then things seem to happen after the

951
00:33:36,049 --> 00:33:33,899
afterwards it's not just at the time of

952
00:33:38,930 --> 00:33:36,059
even people that research it heavily

953
00:33:40,730 --> 00:33:38,940
guys like George Knapp Colin Kelleher uh

954
00:33:42,710 --> 00:33:40,740
even people with the CIA like Jim

955
00:33:44,210 --> 00:33:42,720
semivan they seem to have I mean it's

956
00:33:46,430 --> 00:33:44,220
called The Hitchhiker effect usually

957
00:33:48,529 --> 00:33:46,440
when referring to Skinwalker Ranch but

958
00:33:51,409 --> 00:33:48,539
essentially it's the prolonged

959
00:33:53,210 --> 00:33:51,419
repetition of phenomena sometimes it

960
00:33:55,250 --> 00:33:53,220
appears as Poltergeist sometimes it's

961
00:33:57,889 --> 00:33:55,260
orbs sometimes it's physiological

962
00:34:00,529 --> 00:33:57,899
effects and actual like illnesses that

963
00:34:02,870 --> 00:34:00,539
are provable like weird Hashimoto's and

964
00:34:03,649 --> 00:34:02,880
very obscure things so what do you make

965
00:34:07,970 --> 00:34:03,659
of

966
00:34:10,070 --> 00:34:07,980
phenomenon interacting with it seeing it

967
00:34:11,570 --> 00:34:10,080
researching it you know what what do you

968
00:34:14,149 --> 00:34:11,580
make of that sort of lingering effect

969
00:34:15,889 --> 00:34:14,159
that a lot of people report

970
00:34:19,010 --> 00:34:15,899
yes it's one of the most fascinating

971
00:34:20,869 --> 00:34:19,020
aspects I'm aware of a situation that a

972
00:34:22,070 --> 00:34:20,879
friend of mine met from the good trouble

973
00:34:24,169 --> 00:34:22,080
podcast

974
00:34:26,930 --> 00:34:24,179
good triple show he he told me about a

975
00:34:28,010 --> 00:34:26,940
situation he experienced where he was on

976
00:34:29,450 --> 00:34:28,020
the because we're all used to hearing

977
00:34:31,970 --> 00:34:29,460
about skin marker ranch we're quite

978
00:34:32,810 --> 00:34:31,980
familiar with that and The Hitchhiker

979
00:34:35,389 --> 00:34:32,820
effect

980
00:34:37,490 --> 00:34:35,399
there but it happens in all sorts of

981
00:34:39,829 --> 00:34:37,500
different ways and sometimes it's not

982
00:34:42,409 --> 00:34:39,839
nefarious or malevolent or you know

983
00:34:44,450 --> 00:34:42,419
Insidious in his case he was talking on

984
00:34:46,909 --> 00:34:44,460
the phone with Robert Hastings

985
00:34:49,669 --> 00:34:46,919
who has historically done research on

986
00:34:51,409 --> 00:34:49,679
UFOs and nukes and was going around

987
00:34:52,669 --> 00:34:51,419
and I'm going to tell an extended story

988
00:34:54,290 --> 00:34:52,679
here because I think this is really

989
00:34:55,790 --> 00:34:54,300
fascinating it speaks to some of what we

990
00:34:57,470 --> 00:34:55,800
talked about earlier

991
00:35:00,050 --> 00:34:57,480
so Robert Hastings was going around to

992
00:35:01,970 --> 00:35:00,060
the college campuses in the 90s and

993
00:35:03,349 --> 00:35:01,980
whatnot trying to educate people on the

994
00:35:05,089 --> 00:35:03,359
fact that UFOs were showing up at

995
00:35:07,670 --> 00:35:05,099
nuclear weapons facilities and sometimes

996
00:35:10,730 --> 00:35:07,680
disabling nukes sometimes in the Soviet

997
00:35:13,030 --> 00:35:10,740
Union apparently turning them on and

998
00:35:16,130 --> 00:35:13,040
just trying to get people's attention

999
00:35:18,109 --> 00:35:16,140
fascinatingly it was only decades later

1000
00:35:19,430 --> 00:35:18,119
I think he was probably in his 50s or

1001
00:35:21,829 --> 00:35:19,440
something before he suddenly started

1002
00:35:24,530 --> 00:35:21,839
having memories of encountering beings

1003
00:35:26,569 --> 00:35:24,540
as a child so his entire adult life he

1004
00:35:28,910 --> 00:35:26,579
just thought this was his motivation his

1005
00:35:30,589 --> 00:35:28,920
inspiration something he felt called to

1006
00:35:32,569 --> 00:35:30,599
do didn't think of there being any kind

1007
00:35:34,730 --> 00:35:32,579
of impetus outside of his own

1008
00:35:37,490 --> 00:35:34,740
Consciousness but then he started having

1009
00:35:38,870 --> 00:35:37,500
memories of encounters even one very

1010
00:35:40,790 --> 00:35:38,880
specific one where he was sitting around

1011
00:35:42,349 --> 00:35:40,800
the kitchen table with his family and

1012
00:35:44,690 --> 00:35:42,359
they all freeze framed like they just

1013
00:35:46,430 --> 00:35:44,700
went into suspended animation while he

1014
00:35:49,069 --> 00:35:46,440
could keep moving like local space time

1015
00:35:51,050 --> 00:35:49,079
was just frozen and then you know he

1016
00:35:52,310 --> 00:35:51,060
actually remembers vaguely like alien

1017
00:35:55,250 --> 00:35:52,320
beings being there and then he has

1018
00:35:57,170 --> 00:35:55,260
missing time right so then decades later

1019
00:36:00,950 --> 00:35:57,180
he starts remembering this only then

1020
00:36:02,569 --> 00:36:00,960
right and that makes him wonder is this

1021
00:36:05,030 --> 00:36:02,579
why I'm passionate about this was this

1022
00:36:07,370 --> 00:36:05,040
thought implanted in my mind does it

1023
00:36:10,390 --> 00:36:07,380
even perhaps go back before then we here

1024
00:36:12,829 --> 00:36:10,400
in this phenomenon many people have

1025
00:36:15,109 --> 00:36:12,839
pre-incarnation kind of memories that

1026
00:36:17,990 --> 00:36:15,119
come up now some people that think of as

1027
00:36:19,310 --> 00:36:18,000
as nefarious excuse me

1028
00:36:20,810 --> 00:36:19,320
will think well they're just planting

1029
00:36:23,569 --> 00:36:20,820
that but I don't think it's that simple

1030
00:36:25,490 --> 00:36:23,579
I think who we are is a fascinating uh

1031
00:36:27,890 --> 00:36:25,500
aspect of this

1032
00:36:29,990 --> 00:36:27,900
anyway my friend Matt was talking to

1033
00:36:31,910 --> 00:36:30,000
Robert Hastings on the phone

1034
00:36:33,050 --> 00:36:31,920
hearing about his Encounters in his his

1035
00:36:35,089 --> 00:36:33,060
life story

1036
00:36:37,069 --> 00:36:35,099
only afterwards to match started

1037
00:36:39,230 --> 00:36:37,079
experiencing seeing orbs in and around

1038
00:36:40,910 --> 00:36:39,240
his house along with his wife after

1039
00:36:42,829 --> 00:36:40,920
speaking with Robert Hayes things on the

1040
00:36:44,569 --> 00:36:42,839
phone so he sees that as a direct kind

1041
00:36:46,849 --> 00:36:44,579
of Hitchhiker effect

1042
00:36:49,250 --> 00:36:46,859
so you've got that entire thing wrapped

1043
00:36:51,829 --> 00:36:49,260
up in this which again I think might

1044
00:36:54,530 --> 00:36:51,839
hint or indicate maybe again this is a

1045
00:36:56,930 --> 00:36:54,540
mental construct that you can I think

1046
00:36:58,550 --> 00:36:56,940
George Knapp has used the term

1047
00:37:01,490 --> 00:36:58,560
along with calm Kelly hair and whatnot

1048
00:37:03,230 --> 00:37:01,500
of social contagion right you could say

1049
00:37:04,910 --> 00:37:03,240
it's a kind of mental contagion clearly

1050
00:37:06,530 --> 00:37:04,920
no one's when you're doing it on the

1051
00:37:08,990 --> 00:37:06,540
phone clearly you're not being exposed

1052
00:37:11,390 --> 00:37:09,000
to a physical virus right

1053
00:37:13,130 --> 00:37:11,400
it's something about just having that

1054
00:37:15,470 --> 00:37:13,140
mental connection with someone is enough

1055
00:37:17,030 --> 00:37:15,480
for this to pass through so that might

1056
00:37:19,250 --> 00:37:17,040
speak to the fact that reality itself

1057
00:37:22,370 --> 00:37:19,260
might ultimately be more like that like

1058
00:37:24,109 --> 00:37:22,380
mentation processes and by having a

1059
00:37:26,089 --> 00:37:24,119
certain interaction of mentation but

1060
00:37:28,609 --> 00:37:26,099
with another human being that allows

1061
00:37:30,950 --> 00:37:28,619
this whatever it is a viral kind of

1062
00:37:32,990 --> 00:37:30,960
energetic thing to pass through so I

1063
00:37:36,050 --> 00:37:33,000
think those things are fascinating and

1064
00:37:38,450 --> 00:37:36,060
and are worthy of research

1065
00:37:40,190 --> 00:37:38,460
um Bud Hopkins and John Mack sort of

1066
00:37:41,990 --> 00:37:40,200
came to different conclusions when it

1067
00:37:44,089 --> 00:37:42,000
came down to the experiences and what

1068
00:37:45,710 --> 00:37:44,099
they were going through but Hopkins

1069
00:37:47,750 --> 00:37:45,720
was a little bit more on like these

1070
00:37:50,030 --> 00:37:47,760
people are victims and treated them like

1071
00:37:52,609 --> 00:37:50,040
it was more of a traumatic

1072
00:37:54,589 --> 00:37:52,619
process that they were trying to you

1073
00:37:56,450 --> 00:37:54,599
know correct or talk about where John

1074
00:37:57,710 --> 00:37:56,460
Mack thought you know maybe they're

1075
00:37:59,870 --> 00:37:57,720
trying to tell us something because

1076
00:38:02,329 --> 00:37:59,880
there's recurring patterns of and you

1077
00:38:03,950 --> 00:38:02,339
need to watch out for your planet and

1078
00:38:05,690 --> 00:38:03,960
you know some of the people we've talked

1079
00:38:08,510 --> 00:38:05,700
to in the past were mentioning you know

1080
00:38:10,069 --> 00:38:08,520
even being tucked back into bed by these

1081
00:38:12,050 --> 00:38:10,079
entities that they actually cared enough

1082
00:38:14,030 --> 00:38:12,060
to go back and tuck them back into bed

1083
00:38:16,670 --> 00:38:14,040
when they were little like it doesn't

1084
00:38:19,670 --> 00:38:16,680
seem to be malicious although it can be

1085
00:38:22,010 --> 00:38:19,680
perceived as you know very scary because

1086
00:38:24,109 --> 00:38:22,020
it's not you know it's an alien

1087
00:38:26,030 --> 00:38:24,119
experience it's not something that is

1088
00:38:27,290 --> 00:38:26,040
that we have any point of reference when

1089
00:38:30,170 --> 00:38:27,300
you talk to somebody that's really been

1090
00:38:32,030 --> 00:38:30,180
on a ship I was it was like this it was

1091
00:38:33,230 --> 00:38:32,040
like that because there's no there's no

1092
00:38:34,490 --> 00:38:33,240
point of reference they can't tell you

1093
00:38:35,270 --> 00:38:34,500
what it was because it doesn't make

1094
00:38:38,329 --> 00:38:35,280
sense

1095
00:38:40,310 --> 00:38:38,339
so you know hearing that uh and the

1096
00:38:43,010 --> 00:38:40,320
differences between their two views what

1097
00:38:45,290 --> 00:38:43,020
is your view on on this whole situation

1098
00:38:48,290 --> 00:38:45,300
if there is an abduction phenomenon in

1099
00:38:51,970 --> 00:38:48,300
the hybridization program or some sort

1100
00:38:54,109 --> 00:38:51,980
is it for a mutual beneficial

1101
00:38:56,690 --> 00:38:54,119
relationship between us and whatever

1102
00:38:58,609 --> 00:38:56,700
these entities are is it more on a

1103
00:39:00,050 --> 00:38:58,619
malicious level is it more like they're

1104
00:39:03,470 --> 00:39:00,060
selfish they're doing it for their own

1105
00:39:06,170 --> 00:39:03,480
reason what what is your consensus on

1106
00:39:08,630 --> 00:39:06,180
that what was your ideas

1107
00:39:10,190 --> 00:39:08,640
yeah great question I think it's one of

1108
00:39:11,990 --> 00:39:10,200
the most Paramount questions that people

1109
00:39:13,550 --> 00:39:12,000
are engaged with

1110
00:39:15,609 --> 00:39:13,560
I think I would say a couple things one

1111
00:39:18,770 --> 00:39:15,619
caveat I always like to offer is I think

1112
00:39:21,829 --> 00:39:18,780
my my leaning is that

1113
00:39:24,950 --> 00:39:21,839
the universe whatever that is is much

1114
00:39:27,349 --> 00:39:24,960
more diverse and multi-faceted than we

1115
00:39:28,550 --> 00:39:27,359
can even imagine enough yet so all that

1116
00:39:30,349 --> 00:39:28,560
is to say I think there are different

1117
00:39:33,890 --> 00:39:30,359
kinds of entities coming from different

1118
00:39:35,690 --> 00:39:33,900
kinds of origin sources some are what I

1119
00:39:37,609 --> 00:39:35,700
would suggest is psychologically and

1120
00:39:38,870 --> 00:39:37,619
sociologically more mature than others

1121
00:39:40,970 --> 00:39:38,880
so we're talking about developmental

1122
00:39:43,010 --> 00:39:40,980
levels here and the more mature they are

1123
00:39:44,510 --> 00:39:43,020
they also seem to be tied into that

1124
00:39:46,130 --> 00:39:44,520
sense of Oneness that we talked about

1125
00:39:48,950 --> 00:39:46,140
earlier that sense of everything being

1126
00:39:51,230 --> 00:39:48,960
connected and when that's the case

1127
00:39:54,470 --> 00:39:51,240
that's your perspective then your own

1128
00:39:57,050 --> 00:39:54,480
self-interest is to act in such a way as

1129
00:39:58,910 --> 00:39:57,060
to benefit the the whole and to act in

1130
00:40:01,010 --> 00:39:58,920
the greatest good

1131
00:40:02,930 --> 00:40:01,020
but that is to say you know there are

1132
00:40:05,270 --> 00:40:02,940
some entities I think are immature that

1133
00:40:07,670 --> 00:40:05,280
are kind of more like parasitical kind

1134
00:40:09,650 --> 00:40:07,680
of viral kind of entities people do

1135
00:40:11,329 --> 00:40:09,660
experience that and of course what is

1136
00:40:12,890 --> 00:40:11,339
sometimes inhibiting to people and it's

1137
00:40:15,050 --> 00:40:12,900
going to be a lot to reckon with when

1138
00:40:17,569 --> 00:40:15,060
our society begins to really take this

1139
00:40:20,050 --> 00:40:17,579
more seriously is your own Consciousness

1140
00:40:22,190 --> 00:40:20,060
and your own sort of energetic imprint

1141
00:40:23,569 --> 00:40:22,200
becomes kind of like something that

1142
00:40:25,069 --> 00:40:23,579
attracts these different kinds of

1143
00:40:26,329 --> 00:40:25,079
entities we see some of this talked

1144
00:40:28,430 --> 00:40:26,339
about in spiritual and religious

1145
00:40:30,770 --> 00:40:28,440
tradition I think there's some overlap

1146
00:40:32,630 --> 00:40:30,780
here right and we can get Beyond sort of

1147
00:40:34,730 --> 00:40:32,640
the interpretation of what that means

1148
00:40:36,890 --> 00:40:34,740
which is sort of more dogmatic and just

1149
00:40:38,569 --> 00:40:36,900
look at the raw experience itself I

1150
00:40:41,450 --> 00:40:38,579
think people do kind of experience those

1151
00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:41,460
parasitical kind of viral entities and

1152
00:40:45,770 --> 00:40:44,160
if you have a lot of fear anger shame

1153
00:40:48,410 --> 00:40:45,780
these kind of low density kind of

1154
00:40:50,270 --> 00:40:48,420
vibrations or wavelengths if you will

1155
00:40:51,589 --> 00:40:50,280
especially if if reality is ultimately

1156
00:40:54,050 --> 00:40:51,599
energetic

1157
00:40:55,849 --> 00:40:54,060
then I think you you're kind of like a

1158
00:40:58,370 --> 00:40:55,859
light bulb that shines in the dark and

1159
00:41:00,109 --> 00:40:58,380
they they you attract them because of

1160
00:41:02,390 --> 00:41:00,119
that whereas if you are motivated by

1161
00:41:05,390 --> 00:41:02,400
love and connection

1162
00:41:07,250 --> 00:41:05,400
and those kinds of vibrations those

1163
00:41:09,770 --> 00:41:07,260
kinds of associations I think that

1164
00:41:11,150 --> 00:41:09,780
changes the energetic signature and

1165
00:41:13,130 --> 00:41:11,160
perhaps attracts different entities

1166
00:41:15,410 --> 00:41:13,140
that's my first caveat

1167
00:41:17,630 --> 00:41:15,420
but in terms of these specific groups of

1168
00:41:19,490 --> 00:41:17,640
entities that seem to be very intimately

1169
00:41:21,230 --> 00:41:19,500
involved with our society our

1170
00:41:23,329 --> 00:41:21,240
civilization and who knows how far back

1171
00:41:25,190 --> 00:41:23,339
it goes right in terms of there's some

1172
00:41:27,790 --> 00:41:25,200
suggestion there's been genetic tweaking

1173
00:41:30,290 --> 00:41:27,800
over time of our entire genome right

1174
00:41:32,690 --> 00:41:30,300
but I think what we should do is take

1175
00:41:34,849 --> 00:41:32,700
the experiencers testimony seriously

1176
00:41:37,370 --> 00:41:34,859
first and foremost we should not have

1177
00:41:39,950 --> 00:41:37,380
outside researchers coming in and

1178
00:41:41,030 --> 00:41:39,960
presuming to know what's going on I

1179
00:41:43,609 --> 00:41:41,040
think we should first and foremost

1180
00:41:45,890 --> 00:41:43,619
listen to experiencers and across the

1181
00:41:48,109 --> 00:41:45,900
board you find that absolutely it's

1182
00:41:49,970 --> 00:41:48,119
ontologically shocking with John Mack

1183
00:41:52,190 --> 00:41:49,980
came up with that term because he was

1184
00:41:55,010 --> 00:41:52,200
Reckoning with sure if if things that

1185
00:41:56,150 --> 00:41:55,020
look like giant insects appear at the

1186
00:41:58,010 --> 00:41:56,160
end of your bed in the middle of the

1187
00:41:59,990 --> 00:41:58,020
night with no warning

1188
00:42:02,270 --> 00:42:00,000
that's going to be an absolutely

1189
00:42:04,970 --> 00:42:02,280
terrifying ontologically shocking

1190
00:42:07,010 --> 00:42:04,980
experience not just because you you feel

1191
00:42:08,750 --> 00:42:07,020
so vulnerable but these things aren't

1192
00:42:11,210 --> 00:42:08,760
even supposed to exist according to what

1193
00:42:13,130 --> 00:42:11,220
you've been taught so the shock is sort

1194
00:42:14,930 --> 00:42:13,140
of twofold because of that

1195
00:42:16,670 --> 00:42:14,940
and you recognize they're actually there

1196
00:42:17,450 --> 00:42:16,680
in your room they're interacting with

1197
00:42:19,370 --> 00:42:17,460
you

1198
00:42:20,690 --> 00:42:19,380
one friend of mine had the experience of

1199
00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:20,700
you know they kind of got up on the bed

1200
00:42:25,130 --> 00:42:22,800
and when you feel the mattress pressed

1201
00:42:27,650 --> 00:42:25,140
down it's this shot of adrenaline goes

1202
00:42:29,569 --> 00:42:27,660
this is happening this is not a vision

1203
00:42:31,490 --> 00:42:29,579
scape you know that's where I would pee

1204
00:42:32,290 --> 00:42:31,500
myself get over reality yeah

1205
00:42:34,609 --> 00:42:32,300
yeah

1206
00:42:36,050 --> 00:42:34,619
but when you when you then when you

1207
00:42:38,210 --> 00:42:36,060
delve into the experiences once you get

1208
00:42:40,310 --> 00:42:38,220
past all that initial shock and there is

1209
00:42:42,410 --> 00:42:40,320
no doubt initial shock initial trauma

1210
00:42:44,390 --> 00:42:42,420
and sometimes that goes on for years you

1211
00:42:47,450 --> 00:42:44,400
have someone like Susie Hanson

1212
00:42:49,010 --> 00:42:47,460
who talks about now having a very uh

1213
00:42:50,930 --> 00:42:49,020
kind of mutual relationship with them

1214
00:42:52,190 --> 00:42:50,940
even sees herself as kind of a hybrid

1215
00:42:54,829 --> 00:42:52,200
being

1216
00:42:58,370 --> 00:42:54,839
she says for 20 years she was terrified

1217
00:43:00,230 --> 00:42:58,380
of these kinds of encounters so again

1218
00:43:02,150 --> 00:43:00,240
there's a lot of complexity here a lot

1219
00:43:04,730 --> 00:43:02,160
of nuance and I think the more we are

1220
00:43:07,069 --> 00:43:04,740
identified with this small self with the

1221
00:43:09,530 --> 00:43:07,079
body mind that this is the more that's

1222
00:43:11,930 --> 00:43:09,540
going to feel ontologically shocking and

1223
00:43:15,410 --> 00:43:11,940
destabilizing discombobulating as I like

1224
00:43:17,690 --> 00:43:15,420
to say because ego death seems to be one

1225
00:43:20,210 --> 00:43:17,700
of the you know outcomes of these kinds

1226
00:43:21,589 --> 00:43:20,220
of experiences but again it's it's for

1227
00:43:23,270 --> 00:43:21,599
the sake of I would argue this

1228
00:43:26,270 --> 00:43:23,280
Transcendent experience of being

1229
00:43:29,870 --> 00:43:26,280
connected to everything and

1230
00:43:31,910 --> 00:43:29,880
one of the most productive ways to

1231
00:43:33,230 --> 00:43:31,920
actually allow for real spiritual

1232
00:43:35,450 --> 00:43:33,240
transformation and Whitley strippers

1233
00:43:38,390 --> 00:43:35,460
talked about this in his own case is

1234
00:43:40,190 --> 00:43:38,400
trauma when you go through trauma it

1235
00:43:42,410 --> 00:43:40,200
breaks down things to such a degree that

1236
00:43:44,870 --> 00:43:42,420
you really can reconstitute a completely

1237
00:43:47,150 --> 00:43:44,880
different transformational understanding

1238
00:43:49,550 --> 00:43:47,160
of reality so he says on the one hand

1239
00:43:51,829 --> 00:43:49,560
initially I felt like I was raped like

1240
00:43:54,589 --> 00:43:51,839
that's just a blunt way to put it on the

1241
00:43:58,069 --> 00:43:54,599
other hand this experience has been so

1242
00:44:00,230 --> 00:43:58,079
mind expanding for him that he sees as a

1243
00:44:01,609 --> 00:44:00,240
civilization this perhaps being the

1244
00:44:04,309 --> 00:44:01,619
greatest opportunity for Spiritual

1245
00:44:06,829 --> 00:44:04,319
transformation on a society-wide kind of

1246
00:44:08,990 --> 00:44:06,839
scale in the history of mankind

1247
00:44:10,190 --> 00:44:09,000
when you pair that with the messages

1248
00:44:13,910 --> 00:44:10,200
about

1249
00:44:16,309 --> 00:44:13,920
cataclysm coming right some sort of

1250
00:44:17,990 --> 00:44:16,319
Apocalypse again you could even argue is

1251
00:44:20,930 --> 00:44:18,000
this what we see evidenced in religious

1252
00:44:23,990 --> 00:44:20,940
history then you could argue perhaps you

1253
00:44:26,329 --> 00:44:24,000
would justify or understand why there's

1254
00:44:28,250 --> 00:44:26,339
some of this traumatic kind of

1255
00:44:30,770 --> 00:44:28,260
you know shaking of our

1256
00:44:33,770 --> 00:44:30,780
small self ego identities is necessary

1257
00:44:35,770 --> 00:44:33,780
for the sake of this cracking open to a

1258
00:44:38,990 --> 00:44:35,780
more Transcendent expanded understanding

1259
00:44:41,450 --> 00:44:39,000
that is consistently what experiencers

1260
00:44:42,770 --> 00:44:41,460
report now it's not a hundred percent so

1261
00:44:44,329 --> 00:44:42,780
I'm actually just saying it was not a

1262
00:44:46,849 --> 00:44:44,339
good experience it never was never going

1263
00:44:48,410 --> 00:44:46,859
to be but that's not the majority and

1264
00:44:50,329 --> 00:44:48,420
especially when people have time to

1265
00:44:52,970 --> 00:44:50,339
reflect on their experiences

1266
00:44:55,130 --> 00:44:52,980
they they change their perspective to

1267
00:44:57,410 --> 00:44:55,140
give you one really small analogy that

1268
00:44:59,450 --> 00:44:57,420
doesn't really work one-to-one but it

1269
00:45:00,829 --> 00:44:59,460
gives you some sense of this I had an

1270
00:45:04,910 --> 00:45:00,839
experience one time

1271
00:45:06,950 --> 00:45:04,920
in fact I was hiking in your backyard uh

1272
00:45:09,290 --> 00:45:06,960
I was hiking in Golden Ears Provincial

1273
00:45:11,390 --> 00:45:09,300
Park oh yeah that's back home and I came

1274
00:45:13,250 --> 00:45:11,400
across a mountain lion stepped up from

1275
00:45:17,390 --> 00:45:13,260
behind a tree like a few feet away from

1276
00:45:19,190 --> 00:45:17,400
me and and I was completely alone not a

1277
00:45:21,890 --> 00:45:19,200
good experience right immediately

1278
00:45:23,630 --> 00:45:21,900
adrenaline floods through the body I'm

1279
00:45:25,490 --> 00:45:23,640
dead you know this is this is not good

1280
00:45:27,829 --> 00:45:25,500
I'm in shorts than a t-shirt I have no

1281
00:45:30,890 --> 00:45:27,839
weapons I have nothing to defend myself

1282
00:45:32,210 --> 00:45:30,900
so I kind of stood off and and tried to

1283
00:45:34,430 --> 00:45:32,220
like look big and make a lot of noise

1284
00:45:36,290 --> 00:45:34,440
eventually it kind of moved off I went

1285
00:45:37,910 --> 00:45:36,300
around the corner of the trail and then

1286
00:45:40,130 --> 00:45:37,920
started started running right because

1287
00:45:41,870 --> 00:45:40,140
again just the terror right

1288
00:45:43,790 --> 00:45:41,880
not a good move there everything was

1289
00:45:45,290 --> 00:45:43,800
right up until that point but then you

1290
00:45:47,450 --> 00:45:45,300
know the park ranger liter told me that

1291
00:45:48,890 --> 00:45:47,460
you know they can feel through the pads

1292
00:45:50,510 --> 00:45:48,900
of their feet that you're running and it

1293
00:45:52,849 --> 00:45:50,520
kicks in their Predator prey Instinct

1294
00:45:54,650 --> 00:45:52,859
came chasing after me

1295
00:45:55,910 --> 00:45:54,660
so I looked up the back of the trail see

1296
00:45:57,829 --> 00:45:55,920
this thing coming like twice the speed

1297
00:46:00,950 --> 00:45:57,839
that I'm running I'm 20 minutes from my

1298
00:46:03,410 --> 00:46:00,960
car so I I had to turn it around and run

1299
00:46:06,050 --> 00:46:03,420
back at it as it was running at me and

1300
00:46:07,970 --> 00:46:06,060
it stopped you know on a dime about 10

1301
00:46:10,130 --> 00:46:07,980
feet away and I gained the same thing I

1302
00:46:11,809 --> 00:46:10,140
kicked rocks at it I I shouted I tried

1303
00:46:13,309 --> 00:46:11,819
to look big eventually it just got bored

1304
00:46:15,829 --> 00:46:13,319
and moved off the trail

1305
00:46:18,410 --> 00:46:15,839
now that was extremely traumatic for me

1306
00:46:19,730 --> 00:46:18,420
I had post-traumatic stress symptoms for

1307
00:46:22,490 --> 00:46:19,740
years afterwards I could be in the

1308
00:46:24,170 --> 00:46:22,500
middle of a city environment in a and

1309
00:46:25,910 --> 00:46:24,180
there'd be like three trees a Grove of

1310
00:46:27,770 --> 00:46:25,920
three trees and I would see a dog and I

1311
00:46:29,569 --> 00:46:27,780
would suddenly think you know it's it's

1312
00:46:31,430 --> 00:46:29,579
a mountain lion right

1313
00:46:33,890 --> 00:46:31,440
over time though in reflection I

1314
00:46:35,210 --> 00:46:33,900
realized it never made me harm if it

1315
00:46:37,370 --> 00:46:35,220
wanted me for lunch I would have been

1316
00:46:38,809 --> 00:46:37,380
dead already because when mountain lions

1317
00:46:40,730 --> 00:46:38,819
attack you they jump from behind they

1318
00:46:41,990 --> 00:46:40,740
try to snap the back of your neck it

1319
00:46:44,930 --> 00:46:42,000
came from behind and just walked around

1320
00:46:47,089 --> 00:46:44,940
it was curious it clearly it had plenty

1321
00:46:48,710 --> 00:46:47,099
to eat it already that day but my

1322
00:46:51,170 --> 00:46:48,720
initial impression was this thing's an

1323
00:46:53,930 --> 00:46:51,180
enemy it means me harm my life is

1324
00:46:55,250 --> 00:46:53,940
threatened all of that right only later

1325
00:46:58,130 --> 00:46:55,260
with with

1326
00:46:59,569 --> 00:46:58,140
real retrospective analysis and real

1327
00:47:01,849 --> 00:46:59,579
understanding and talking and and

1328
00:47:03,470 --> 00:47:01,859
researching about the nature of these

1329
00:47:04,609 --> 00:47:03,480
creatures that I realized actually I

1330
00:47:06,290 --> 00:47:04,619
don't think it made me harm at all it's

1331
00:47:08,270 --> 00:47:06,300
probably playing with me the same way

1332
00:47:09,770 --> 00:47:08,280
the dog runs after you but that doesn't

1333
00:47:13,190 --> 00:47:09,780
change the fact that initially it was

1334
00:47:14,390 --> 00:47:13,200
extremely traumatic yeah wow I want to

1335
00:47:15,650 --> 00:47:14,400
take you back to something you said just

1336
00:47:18,230 --> 00:47:15,660
a few minutes ago about people

1337
00:47:19,790 --> 00:47:18,240
interacting with parasitic entities and

1338
00:47:21,170 --> 00:47:19,800
it triggered something in my mind I've

1339
00:47:23,510 --> 00:47:21,180
been doing a lot of research lately on

1340
00:47:26,150 --> 00:47:23,520
remote viewing particularly the days of

1341
00:47:28,550 --> 00:47:26,160
like Ingo Swan and Pat price and things

1342
00:47:31,430 --> 00:47:28,560
like that and a lot of people claim to

1343
00:47:32,750 --> 00:47:31,440
have these Powers most of them don't you

1344
00:47:34,370 --> 00:47:32,760
know there's some cool things on Twitter

1345
00:47:35,809 --> 00:47:34,380
where a guy holds up an envelope and

1346
00:47:37,849 --> 00:47:35,819
he's like what's in the envelope and

1347
00:47:39,650 --> 00:47:37,859
everybody posts it but but the people

1348
00:47:41,750 --> 00:47:39,660
that are tried and true the ones that

1349
00:47:44,089 --> 00:47:41,760
work for the government have been proven

1350
00:47:46,130 --> 00:47:44,099
to be accurate essentially they have to

1351
00:47:48,770 --> 00:47:46,140
manipulate Consciousness at some level

1352
00:47:51,829 --> 00:47:48,780
to be able to go and do these viewings

1353
00:47:53,809 --> 00:47:51,839
and many times they've reported sort of

1354
00:47:56,630 --> 00:47:53,819
encountering beings like their remote

1355
00:47:58,910 --> 00:47:56,640
viewing bases underground if they exist

1356
00:48:00,650 --> 00:47:58,920
and they become aware of these entities

1357
00:48:02,930 --> 00:48:00,660
and the entities become aware that

1358
00:48:05,390 --> 00:48:02,940
they're being observed and all of this

1359
00:48:06,890 --> 00:48:05,400
has recently blown my mind so as a

1360
00:48:08,990 --> 00:48:06,900
believer in these type of things and

1361
00:48:10,790 --> 00:48:09,000
Consciousness and all that what are your

1362
00:48:13,670 --> 00:48:10,800
thoughts on sort of genuine remote

1363
00:48:16,490 --> 00:48:13,680
viewing is is it possible and could you

1364
00:48:19,250 --> 00:48:16,500
shed any light on that

1365
00:48:21,290 --> 00:48:19,260
yes I absolutely am a believer in that

1366
00:48:24,290 --> 00:48:21,300
because again there's a lot of overlap

1367
00:48:26,750 --> 00:48:24,300
and I think that um

1368
00:48:28,250 --> 00:48:26,760
when again you really reckon with this

1369
00:48:29,630 --> 00:48:28,260
notion that a Hoffman puts forward that

1370
00:48:31,790 --> 00:48:29,640
what we experience is actually not

1371
00:48:34,790 --> 00:48:31,800
reality it's an interface with icons

1372
00:48:36,890 --> 00:48:34,800
then that suggests that there's actually

1373
00:48:38,450 --> 00:48:36,900
vast aspects of reality that are

1374
00:48:40,609 --> 00:48:38,460
coexisting with us right now that we're

1375
00:48:42,650 --> 00:48:40,619
just not usually aware of

1376
00:48:44,510 --> 00:48:42,660
so through these different means we

1377
00:48:46,430 --> 00:48:44,520
become aware of more

1378
00:48:49,010 --> 00:48:46,440
and in the case of the Stargate program

1379
00:48:50,750 --> 00:48:49,020
you know different versions of that ran

1380
00:48:53,030 --> 00:48:50,760
for 20 years were fully funded by the

1381
00:48:56,450 --> 00:48:53,040
CIA for 20 years

1382
00:48:58,390 --> 00:48:56,460
you know they have to actually show

1383
00:49:00,829 --> 00:48:58,400
evidence suggesting that it's actually

1384
00:49:02,390 --> 00:49:00,839
producing material that's usable that's

1385
00:49:04,309 --> 00:49:02,400
actionable otherwise they would not

1386
00:49:06,170 --> 00:49:04,319
continue to have their contract renewed

1387
00:49:08,870 --> 00:49:06,180
for 20 years they were able to

1388
00:49:10,730 --> 00:49:08,880
corroborate the details through other

1389
00:49:12,770 --> 00:49:10,740
means they would say they would have

1390
00:49:14,210 --> 00:49:12,780
like actual hard intelligence that after

1391
00:49:16,309 --> 00:49:14,220
the fact that it said it turns out

1392
00:49:18,710 --> 00:49:16,319
that's absolutely right remember one

1393
00:49:20,809 --> 00:49:18,720
time hearing about a case where

1394
00:49:23,030 --> 00:49:20,819
someone just didn't didn't believe this

1395
00:49:23,870 --> 00:49:23,040
right they were someone in the CIA but

1396
00:49:26,030 --> 00:49:23,880
they just thought the whole thing was

1397
00:49:27,530 --> 00:49:26,040
hogwash why are we paying for this and

1398
00:49:29,510 --> 00:49:27,540
so they said okay I'm going to give you

1399
00:49:31,130 --> 00:49:29,520
some coordinates and this is really

1400
00:49:33,170 --> 00:49:31,140
fascinating by the way the the less

1401
00:49:34,849 --> 00:49:33,180
information you have the better because

1402
00:49:36,710 --> 00:49:34,859
it's people like urugueller and Ingo

1403
00:49:38,329 --> 00:49:36,720
swamp will tell you memory and

1404
00:49:40,010 --> 00:49:38,339
Imagination are your biggest enemies

1405
00:49:41,569 --> 00:49:40,020
when it comes to actually remote viewing

1406
00:49:43,730 --> 00:49:41,579
or clairvoyances it's been known

1407
00:49:45,770 --> 00:49:43,740
historically remote viewing is like a

1408
00:49:48,410 --> 00:49:45,780
specific protocol that the the military

1409
00:49:50,270 --> 00:49:48,420
along with SRI came up with but it's

1410
00:49:53,450 --> 00:49:50,280
basically Clairvoyance as the underlying

1411
00:49:55,309 --> 00:49:53,460
psychological sort of apparatus there

1412
00:49:56,510 --> 00:49:55,319
but he gave this guy coordinates

1413
00:49:59,030 --> 00:49:56,520
thinking that he's going to say

1414
00:50:00,230 --> 00:49:59,040
something Fantastical but the guy that

1415
00:50:02,270 --> 00:50:00,240
gave the coordinates knew that it was

1416
00:50:04,069 --> 00:50:02,280
just his cabin in the woods somewhere in

1417
00:50:05,990 --> 00:50:04,079
the in the north eastern United States

1418
00:50:07,430 --> 00:50:06,000
and so he thought this guy would make

1419
00:50:09,230 --> 00:50:07,440
something up and they could catch him in

1420
00:50:09,890 --> 00:50:09,240
the act and say see there's nothing to

1421
00:50:12,109 --> 00:50:09,900
it

1422
00:50:13,730 --> 00:50:12,119
so the guy says yeah I'm seeing an

1423
00:50:15,170 --> 00:50:13,740
underground base and there's these this

1424
00:50:16,970 --> 00:50:15,180
these really interesting machines and

1425
00:50:20,150 --> 00:50:16,980
there's like people under the ground and

1426
00:50:22,069 --> 00:50:20,160
Boba and he says aha you know I catch

1427
00:50:23,450 --> 00:50:22,079
you at least that's what he thinks turns

1428
00:50:27,109 --> 00:50:23,460
out he did some research and found out

1429
00:50:29,210 --> 00:50:27,119
there was a top secret facility under

1430
00:50:31,130 --> 00:50:29,220
the ground not far from his mountain

1431
00:50:32,930 --> 00:50:31,140
cabin so that's an example of that kind

1432
00:50:34,190 --> 00:50:32,940
of thing another case that's really

1433
00:50:37,190 --> 00:50:34,200
fascinating

1434
00:50:40,130 --> 00:50:37,200
is I think it was Erie Geller it was

1435
00:50:42,829 --> 00:50:40,140
this this particular case where he was

1436
00:50:45,410 --> 00:50:42,839
tasked with trying to

1437
00:50:47,630 --> 00:50:45,420
read the documents or something uh

1438
00:50:50,030 --> 00:50:47,640
within kind of this iron container that

1439
00:50:51,890 --> 00:50:50,040
was you know really thick iron no way

1440
00:50:54,829 --> 00:50:51,900
you can get into it kind of thing

1441
00:50:55,910 --> 00:50:54,839
and to sort of watch over this

1442
00:50:57,650 --> 00:50:55,920
experiment and make sure that it was

1443
00:51:00,109 --> 00:50:57,660
legit they brought in these nuclear

1444
00:51:03,109 --> 00:51:00,119
physicists who had no history no

1445
00:51:04,970 --> 00:51:03,119
interest in anything paranormal or

1446
00:51:06,829 --> 00:51:04,980
parapsychological they were just there

1447
00:51:09,290 --> 00:51:06,839
to make sure that all the protocols were

1448
00:51:10,790 --> 00:51:09,300
followed he didn't so nobody slipped him

1449
00:51:12,890 --> 00:51:10,800
the information or anything like that or

1450
00:51:15,530 --> 00:51:12,900
he didn't get to go in they verified

1451
00:51:17,569 --> 00:51:15,540
sure enough it was a valid experiment

1452
00:51:19,130 --> 00:51:17,579
and he seemed to produce valid Intel

1453
00:51:20,809 --> 00:51:19,140
which you can understand for the

1454
00:51:22,730 --> 00:51:20,819
intelligence Community this is valid

1455
00:51:24,770 --> 00:51:22,740
this is Vital Information in fact

1456
00:51:26,809 --> 00:51:24,780
because if it turns out that there are

1457
00:51:28,910 --> 00:51:26,819
ultimately no secrets no way to keep

1458
00:51:30,710 --> 00:51:28,920
something secret then this has vast

1459
00:51:33,170 --> 00:51:30,720
implications for National Security and

1460
00:51:36,109 --> 00:51:33,180
whatnot and they knew that the Soviets

1461
00:51:37,490 --> 00:51:36,119
had you know a decade or so more

1462
00:51:39,290 --> 00:51:37,500
experience with this and we're taking it

1463
00:51:41,809 --> 00:51:39,300
seriously and that's partly what made

1464
00:51:42,890 --> 00:51:41,819
the the United States take it more

1465
00:51:44,569 --> 00:51:42,900
seriously

1466
00:51:46,790 --> 00:51:44,579
but what's interesting is not just that

1467
00:51:48,950 --> 00:51:46,800
they verified sure enough he seemed to

1468
00:51:50,450 --> 00:51:48,960
produce valid Intel in ways that we

1469
00:51:51,770 --> 00:51:50,460
don't understand according to our

1470
00:51:52,609 --> 00:51:51,780
conventional understanding how he could

1471
00:51:54,770 --> 00:51:52,619
do that

1472
00:51:58,790 --> 00:51:54,780
but these nuclear physicists went home

1473
00:52:00,770 --> 00:51:58,800
and began to see orbs in their houses

1474
00:52:02,630 --> 00:52:00,780
so again you have that kind of social

1475
00:52:04,609 --> 00:52:02,640
contagion again right you have this kind

1476
00:52:06,530 --> 00:52:04,619
of Hitchhiker effect for people who were

1477
00:52:09,470 --> 00:52:06,540
not closely associated with him with

1478
00:52:11,809 --> 00:52:09,480
Eric Geller they were just there as you

1479
00:52:13,609 --> 00:52:11,819
know objective observers and yet

1480
00:52:15,530 --> 00:52:13,619
something happened and they began to

1481
00:52:17,390 --> 00:52:15,540
experience things and the reason we know

1482
00:52:19,069 --> 00:52:17,400
that because again according to what we

1483
00:52:20,690 --> 00:52:19,079
were talking about earlier probably they

1484
00:52:21,950 --> 00:52:20,700
don't want to admit this right this is

1485
00:52:23,210 --> 00:52:21,960
not something that they're going to

1486
00:52:26,030 --> 00:52:23,220
think they're going to be fired or like

1487
00:52:28,609 --> 00:52:26,040
sent for a psychiatric evaluation

1488
00:52:30,049 --> 00:52:28,619
but the thing is you have to whenever

1489
00:52:31,430 --> 00:52:30,059
you're going into these facilities these

1490
00:52:34,309 --> 00:52:31,440
top secret facilities these nuclear

1491
00:52:35,750 --> 00:52:34,319
facilities you have to recount to the

1492
00:52:37,490 --> 00:52:35,760
security people everything that's

1493
00:52:38,990 --> 00:52:37,500
happened to you and if you're not

1494
00:52:40,790 --> 00:52:39,000
absolutely truthful they will like pull

1495
00:52:42,410 --> 00:52:40,800
your security clearance so it's because

1496
00:52:43,309 --> 00:52:42,420
of that they said well it turns out this

1497
00:52:45,170 --> 00:52:43,319
has happened

1498
00:52:46,670 --> 00:52:45,180
so that's how we know about it but again

1499
00:52:49,190 --> 00:52:46,680
I think this speaks to the fact that

1500
00:52:50,809 --> 00:52:49,200
it's not just people making claims but

1501
00:52:53,150 --> 00:52:50,819
there's remarkable objective evidence

1502
00:52:55,609 --> 00:52:53,160
from things like a 20-year long

1503
00:52:57,170 --> 00:52:55,619
you know CIA funded program I'm sure

1504
00:53:00,109 --> 00:52:57,180
those things are still going on they're

1505
00:53:02,030 --> 00:53:00,119
just again using different names now uh

1506
00:53:03,589 --> 00:53:02,040
you don't have that kind of valid Intel

1507
00:53:05,390 --> 00:53:03,599
it's funded for that long unless it's

1508
00:53:08,270 --> 00:53:05,400
really it's really real it's really

1509
00:53:10,849 --> 00:53:08,280
producing actionable intelligence

1510
00:53:12,109 --> 00:53:10,859
and this social contagion comes in here

1511
00:53:13,730 --> 00:53:12,119
as well which is interesting because we

1512
00:53:16,250 --> 00:53:13,740
already talked about it before with the

1513
00:53:17,690 --> 00:53:16,260
UFO phenomenon and whatnot yeah and the

1514
00:53:19,910 --> 00:53:17,700
interesting thing with that is I have a

1515
00:53:21,890 --> 00:53:19,920
friend who is has been trained to do

1516
00:53:23,809 --> 00:53:21,900
this has been doing it for a while and I

1517
00:53:25,549 --> 00:53:23,819
asked him I'm like how do I how do I

1518
00:53:27,470 --> 00:53:25,559
learn this how do I give it a shot and

1519
00:53:29,329 --> 00:53:27,480
he was he warned me it's instant

1520
00:53:31,370 --> 00:53:29,339
hitchhiker effect don't go there don't

1521
00:53:33,770 --> 00:53:31,380
mess with it even the people that are

1522
00:53:36,230 --> 00:53:33,780
trained still get this hitchhiker effect

1523
00:53:38,569 --> 00:53:36,240
quote unquote and they need to consult

1524
00:53:40,370 --> 00:53:38,579
each other to help rid themselves of

1525
00:53:42,290 --> 00:53:40,380
these nuisances right and like you said

1526
00:53:43,849 --> 00:53:42,300
the guys of the nuclear base they had

1527
00:53:47,030 --> 00:53:43,859
nothing to do with it and they get weird

1528
00:53:48,950 --> 00:53:47,040
stuff going on so to to caution people

1529
00:53:51,530 --> 00:53:48,960
on that and a lot of people even say

1530
00:53:52,730 --> 00:53:51,540
with things like ce5 like don't mess

1531
00:53:55,069 --> 00:53:52,740
with that you don't know what you're

1532
00:53:56,510 --> 00:53:55,079
doing it's kind of like a Ouija board do

1533
00:53:58,309 --> 00:53:56,520
you have an opinion one way or the other

1534
00:53:59,990 --> 00:53:58,319
is it a good thing should we leave it

1535
00:54:00,829 --> 00:54:00,000
alone and just not mess with that sort

1536
00:54:03,109 --> 00:54:00,839
of stuff

1537
00:54:05,870 --> 00:54:03,119
I love that question and I I have a

1538
00:54:07,010 --> 00:54:05,880
nuanced response to it so I'm I'm one of

1539
00:54:09,230 --> 00:54:07,020
those people that had an experience like

1540
00:54:11,809 --> 00:54:09,240
that right so when I went to the Monroe

1541
00:54:13,370 --> 00:54:11,819
Institute and we used the C5 kind of

1542
00:54:15,349 --> 00:54:13,380
highest protocols

1543
00:54:17,210 --> 00:54:15,359
we you know for instance we kind of had

1544
00:54:18,650 --> 00:54:17,220
like a grab bag of all these different

1545
00:54:19,670 --> 00:54:18,660
phenomena we're talking about here

1546
00:54:22,430 --> 00:54:19,680
because

1547
00:54:24,470 --> 00:54:22,440
the Monroe Institute is known for trying

1548
00:54:25,970 --> 00:54:24,480
to help people have out-of-body

1549
00:54:27,589 --> 00:54:25,980
experiences right

1550
00:54:30,049 --> 00:54:27,599
so we were first going to our little

1551
00:54:31,730 --> 00:54:30,059
cubicles where it's blacked out room you

1552
00:54:32,690 --> 00:54:31,740
pull a curtain clothes and you're lying

1553
00:54:34,910 --> 00:54:32,700
on a bed and everything's completely

1554
00:54:36,950 --> 00:54:34,920
dark and they're beaming audio signals

1555
00:54:38,870 --> 00:54:36,960
into both sides of your you know both

1556
00:54:40,549 --> 00:54:38,880
sides of your head right you can also

1557
00:54:42,410 --> 00:54:40,559
listen to on headphones

1558
00:54:44,930 --> 00:54:42,420
and this is to help

1559
00:54:46,370 --> 00:54:44,940
loosen your attachment to your physical

1560
00:54:48,109 --> 00:54:46,380
body what makes it more likely that

1561
00:54:50,630 --> 00:54:48,119
you're going to have an out-of-body

1562
00:54:52,609 --> 00:54:50,640
stated kind of experience

1563
00:54:56,510 --> 00:54:52,619
so we were doing that

1564
00:54:58,309 --> 00:54:56,520
in each of our cubicles and then also

1565
00:54:59,690 --> 00:54:58,319
having a shared intention for having

1566
00:55:02,569 --> 00:54:59,700
some sort of experience together that

1567
00:55:04,490 --> 00:55:02,579
night in the meadow right so we we did

1568
00:55:06,890 --> 00:55:04,500
this in our cubicles then we went out

1569
00:55:10,970 --> 00:55:06,900
into the meadow we sat in a in a circle

1570
00:55:13,609 --> 00:55:10,980
on chairs and we had this intention and

1571
00:55:15,410 --> 00:55:13,619
we had people filming it we had people

1572
00:55:17,870 --> 00:55:15,420
that were experts in knowing what is a

1573
00:55:19,670 --> 00:55:17,880
satellite what is a what is a meteor you

1574
00:55:22,010 --> 00:55:19,680
know what is starlink all these things

1575
00:55:23,630 --> 00:55:22,020
so we could say pretty quickly uh yeah

1576
00:55:25,670 --> 00:55:23,640
that's that that's that so we're not

1577
00:55:28,549 --> 00:55:25,680
going to be fooled by you know something

1578
00:55:30,230 --> 00:55:28,559
that is actually just something prosaic

1579
00:55:32,270 --> 00:55:30,240
but we had things to happen like for

1580
00:55:33,890 --> 00:55:32,280
instance uh what looks like a satellite

1581
00:55:36,410 --> 00:55:33,900
initially comes tracking across the sky

1582
00:55:38,390 --> 00:55:36,420
but then things like it'll just stop

1583
00:55:41,270 --> 00:55:38,400
right and then just sort of like Fade

1584
00:55:42,770 --> 00:55:41,280
Out things like that uh and sort of like

1585
00:55:44,750 --> 00:55:42,780
the flashlight thing right that's coming

1586
00:55:47,450 --> 00:55:44,760
across the screen that kind of thing

1587
00:55:49,309 --> 00:55:47,460
and what happened to me was it was after

1588
00:55:51,109 --> 00:55:49,319
those experiences that I began to have

1589
00:55:52,849 --> 00:55:51,119
again these kind of downloads where I

1590
00:55:54,710 --> 00:55:52,859
would wake up with information to my

1591
00:55:57,950 --> 00:55:54,720
mind that wasn't there before

1592
00:56:00,410 --> 00:55:57,960
it felt very

1593
00:56:02,270 --> 00:56:00,420
tangential you know it felt like it was

1594
00:56:04,849 --> 00:56:02,280
from somewhere else and I didn't even

1595
00:56:06,170 --> 00:56:04,859
know how it really really fit and as I

1596
00:56:08,450 --> 00:56:06,180
say that as I walk out my daily

1597
00:56:10,069 --> 00:56:08,460
experience throughout the week it would

1598
00:56:11,450 --> 00:56:10,079
drop in and someone would say something

1599
00:56:13,450 --> 00:56:11,460
and it would drop in right there that's

1600
00:56:16,490 --> 00:56:13,460
relevant there so it's like I'm getting

1601
00:56:18,410 --> 00:56:16,500
uh uh pre-delivery of information that's

1602
00:56:22,069 --> 00:56:18,420
going to be useful and relevant but

1603
00:56:24,890 --> 00:56:22,079
later in my experience of linear reality

1604
00:56:25,750 --> 00:56:24,900
what I would say is again this speaks to

1605
00:56:29,870 --> 00:56:25,760
what I was saying earlier about

1606
00:56:31,670 --> 00:56:29,880
energetic resonance and what kind of

1607
00:56:32,750 --> 00:56:31,680
vibration are you sending out I

1608
00:56:35,510 --> 00:56:32,760
understand some people with a science

1609
00:56:37,130 --> 00:56:35,520
background will just get Driven Crazy by

1610
00:56:39,530 --> 00:56:37,140
that kind of language

1611
00:56:42,650 --> 00:56:39,540
but just think about it as again if

1612
00:56:45,290 --> 00:56:42,660
you're focused on fear shame those kinds

1613
00:56:47,089 --> 00:56:45,300
of uh things you're going to

1614
00:56:50,630 --> 00:56:47,099
emit a certain kind of energetic

1615
00:56:52,790 --> 00:56:50,640
signature into the cosmos and just like

1616
00:56:54,890 --> 00:56:52,800
someone with a weak immune system is

1617
00:56:57,410 --> 00:56:54,900
vulnerable to some viruses that we might

1618
00:56:59,450 --> 00:56:57,420
not be right it's the same sort of idea

1619
00:57:02,710 --> 00:56:59,460
here I think there's some analogy here

1620
00:57:05,329 --> 00:57:02,720
on the other hand if you have really

1621
00:57:06,650 --> 00:57:05,339
employed spiritual hygiene so you've

1622
00:57:08,630 --> 00:57:06,660
actually used techniques to make sure

1623
00:57:10,849 --> 00:57:08,640
that you are aware of your spiritual

1624
00:57:12,470 --> 00:57:10,859
energy your your energetic signature

1625
00:57:14,329 --> 00:57:12,480
again people sometimes get triggered by

1626
00:57:16,069 --> 00:57:14,339
the word spiritual but just think about

1627
00:57:17,870 --> 00:57:16,079
this as energy right if and everything

1628
00:57:20,569 --> 00:57:17,880
underlyingly is a kind of energetic

1629
00:57:22,490 --> 00:57:20,579
signature and then we have to some

1630
00:57:25,130 --> 00:57:22,500
degree kind of an energetic immune

1631
00:57:27,049 --> 00:57:25,140
system as well and if you are focused on

1632
00:57:29,030 --> 00:57:27,059
sort of these more High vibrational kind

1633
00:57:32,089 --> 00:57:29,040
of perspectives like love connection

1634
00:57:33,770 --> 00:57:32,099
truth things like this then you're going

1635
00:57:35,690 --> 00:57:33,780
to have a resilience to those kinds of

1636
00:57:37,910 --> 00:57:35,700
things which coming around to your

1637
00:57:40,670 --> 00:57:37,920
question about should we practice C5 and

1638
00:57:42,290 --> 00:57:40,680
Heist is it safe I think that's where I

1639
00:57:43,790 --> 00:57:42,300
say that comes in so if you're a very

1640
00:57:46,250 --> 00:57:43,800
fearful person who tends to think

1641
00:57:48,109 --> 00:57:46,260
anything that's unknown is a threat and

1642
00:57:49,730 --> 00:57:48,119
you have that kind of perspective then

1643
00:57:52,250 --> 00:57:49,740
maybe it's not the thing for you maybe

1644
00:57:54,710 --> 00:57:52,260
you need to do some some energetic work

1645
00:57:57,230 --> 00:57:54,720
to work through that because that I

1646
00:57:59,150 --> 00:57:57,240
think does prime the experience to some

1647
00:58:02,450 --> 00:57:59,160
degree on the other hand if you're going

1648
00:58:04,250 --> 00:58:02,460
with this very set intention to have an

1649
00:58:05,510 --> 00:58:04,260
experience with benevolent entities that

1650
00:58:07,390 --> 00:58:05,520
are coming with the same sort of

1651
00:58:10,309 --> 00:58:07,400
energetic signature that you're

1652
00:58:11,750 --> 00:58:10,319
outputting then you're very likely to

1653
00:58:13,849 --> 00:58:11,760
have that kind of experience I've looked

1654
00:58:16,069 --> 00:58:13,859
pretty closely at the the data

1655
00:58:20,510 --> 00:58:16,079
historically for C5 and Heist kind of

1656
00:58:22,970 --> 00:58:20,520
protocols and it's very highly positive

1657
00:58:24,650 --> 00:58:22,980
and the few cases I know where there was

1658
00:58:26,450 --> 00:58:24,660
a not so great experience I think there

1659
00:58:29,510 --> 00:58:26,460
are mitigating circumstances in those

1660
00:58:31,849 --> 00:58:29,520
situations either people again had

1661
00:58:33,290 --> 00:58:31,859
energetic wavelengths that were

1662
00:58:34,190 --> 00:58:33,300
attracting perhaps things that were not

1663
00:58:35,210 --> 00:58:34,200
good

1664
00:58:37,609 --> 00:58:35,220
and this is one of the things people

1665
00:58:39,230 --> 00:58:37,619
need to be aware of you might go saying

1666
00:58:41,150 --> 00:58:39,240
I want to have this kind of contact but

1667
00:58:42,829 --> 00:58:41,160
if your actual energetic signature is

1668
00:58:44,569 --> 00:58:42,839
not aligned with

1669
00:58:46,069 --> 00:58:44,579
your intention

1670
00:58:48,829 --> 00:58:46,079
they're going to read the energetic

1671
00:58:51,109 --> 00:58:48,839
signature not your sort of intention so

1672
00:58:52,849 --> 00:58:51,119
this is speaks to the the kind of

1673
00:58:54,470 --> 00:58:52,859
hygienic work we need to do this is

1674
00:58:55,670 --> 00:58:54,480
something that's not well known in our

1675
00:58:57,770 --> 00:58:55,680
society specifically in western

1676
00:59:00,049 --> 00:58:57,780
civilization but these are the kind of

1677
00:59:01,670 --> 00:59:00,059
things people do need to be taught and

1678
00:59:02,870 --> 00:59:01,680
it's taught in you know shamanic

1679
00:59:04,190 --> 00:59:02,880
cultures and whatnot around the world

1680
00:59:05,870 --> 00:59:04,200
but we don't talk about it here because

1681
00:59:07,490 --> 00:59:05,880
we assume it's not real

1682
00:59:08,930 --> 00:59:07,500
so these are all things need to come

1683
00:59:10,849 --> 00:59:08,940
into the four these are things that I

1684
00:59:13,010 --> 00:59:10,859
think people will begin to practice but

1685
00:59:14,690 --> 00:59:13,020
initially there will be a lot of shock I

1686
00:59:16,789 --> 00:59:14,700
think in our civilization when people

1687
00:59:19,430 --> 00:59:16,799
recognize on mass that this is part of

1688
00:59:21,230 --> 00:59:19,440
what reality is but that's my my long

1689
00:59:23,809 --> 00:59:21,240
answer to that is that yes I think it's

1690
00:59:25,730 --> 00:59:23,819
safe but you have to be aware of kind of

1691
00:59:27,230 --> 00:59:25,740
who you're calling on the other end and

1692
00:59:29,210 --> 00:59:27,240
the number you're dialing is is

1693
00:59:32,089 --> 00:59:29,220
determined to a large degree by your

1694
00:59:33,890 --> 00:59:32,099
energetic output so I think that that's

1695
00:59:36,049 --> 00:59:33,900
something to keep in mind for sure

1696
00:59:37,549 --> 00:59:36,059
I think it's funny because there's a

1697
00:59:39,650 --> 00:59:37,559
there's been a few times there's

1698
00:59:41,690 --> 00:59:39,660
contests going on I think it was UFO con

1699
00:59:44,690 --> 00:59:41,700
or something a couple of years ago where

1700
00:59:46,370 --> 00:59:44,700
you could win a camping overnight with

1701
00:59:50,630 --> 00:59:46,380
Travis Walton

1702
00:59:52,789 --> 00:59:50,640
what's like no no thank you yeah or like

1703
00:59:55,490 --> 00:59:52,799
oh go hang out for uh you know a night

1704
00:59:57,710 --> 00:59:55,500
in a cabin with Whitley streber no no

1705
00:59:59,990 --> 00:59:57,720
thank you Jeffrey Cripe will try that it

1706
01:00:02,569 --> 01:00:00,000
didn't turn out very well it's just yeah

1707
01:00:04,010 --> 01:00:02,579
and I just think you know there's we

1708
01:00:05,569 --> 01:00:04,020
were talking about the one-offs of

1709
01:00:07,190 --> 01:00:05,579
course that you know people just have

1710
01:00:09,589 --> 01:00:07,200
this one-time occurrence where they're

1711
01:00:11,390 --> 01:00:09,599
taken or there's the ones that occur

1712
01:00:13,069 --> 01:00:11,400
over and over again I think the ones

1713
01:00:15,349 --> 01:00:13,079
that occur over and over again are the

1714
01:00:16,970 --> 01:00:15,359
scarier ones for sure because your

1715
01:00:20,030 --> 01:00:16,980
chances are being taken when you're with

1716
01:00:22,730 --> 01:00:20,040
them were probably higher than not

1717
01:00:24,230 --> 01:00:22,740
um but there's also you know in cases in

1718
01:00:26,510 --> 01:00:24,240
the past where kids have been sleeping

1719
01:00:30,349 --> 01:00:26,520
over somebody else's house for the

1720
01:00:31,609 --> 01:00:30,359
evening and then they get taken along

1721
01:00:33,289 --> 01:00:31,619
with their friend because their friend

1722
01:00:35,630 --> 01:00:33,299
is the abductee but they end up getting

1723
01:00:37,549 --> 01:00:35,640
taken along with them because they were

1724
01:00:39,410 --> 01:00:37,559
staying over that night or just somebody

1725
01:00:42,230 --> 01:00:39,420
that happens to be in the room with you

1726
01:00:43,430 --> 01:00:42,240
know you know a relationship that just

1727
01:00:45,710 --> 01:00:43,440
started or something it's only six

1728
01:00:47,210 --> 01:00:45,720
months in and the woman wakes up middle

1729
01:00:48,710 --> 01:00:47,220
of the night to find out that her

1730
01:00:51,770 --> 01:00:48,720
boyfriend's an abductee and she gets

1731
01:00:53,690 --> 01:00:51,780
taken too so this happens to to people

1732
01:00:55,250 --> 01:00:53,700
just randomly seems like they select

1733
01:00:57,109 --> 01:00:55,260
certain people but if somebody's in

1734
01:00:59,510 --> 01:00:57,119
close proximity to them that person has

1735
01:01:01,490 --> 01:00:59,520
experiences as well and that's almost

1736
01:01:02,870 --> 01:01:01,500
like a hitchhiker effect too it's like

1737
01:01:04,609 --> 01:01:02,880
well if you're there you're going to be

1738
01:01:07,250 --> 01:01:04,619
you're going to be taking along for the

1739
01:01:08,809 --> 01:01:07,260
ride but sometimes they don't and that's

1740
01:01:10,250 --> 01:01:08,819
the ones I'm always interested in it's

1741
01:01:12,650 --> 01:01:10,260
like what is it about that one person

1742
01:01:14,510 --> 01:01:12,660
that they want nothing to do with

1743
01:01:17,089 --> 01:01:14,520
and I think it was Kathleen Martin that

1744
01:01:18,530 --> 01:01:17,099
was uh describing an incident where a

1745
01:01:21,170 --> 01:01:18,540
woman was taken out of bed with her

1746
01:01:23,390 --> 01:01:21,180
husband and then by little gray and when

1747
01:01:24,950 --> 01:01:23,400
she approached the craft with this gray

1748
01:01:26,690 --> 01:01:24,960
a taller Gray

1749
01:01:28,309 --> 01:01:26,700
told the shorter one they'll bring her

1750
01:01:29,450 --> 01:01:28,319
back she can't have children she's no

1751
01:01:31,490 --> 01:01:29,460
use to us

1752
01:01:32,569 --> 01:01:31,500
and she heard him communicate that and

1753
01:01:34,069 --> 01:01:32,579
then went back to the house I'm

1754
01:01:35,690 --> 01:01:34,079
wondering if like they're only

1755
01:01:37,730 --> 01:01:35,700
interested if we can have something to

1756
01:01:39,950 --> 01:01:37,740
offer to them in a physical sense

1757
01:01:42,710 --> 01:01:39,960
because they don't seem to be messing us

1758
01:01:45,170 --> 01:01:42,720
messing with us on the

1759
01:01:47,210 --> 01:01:45,180
a spiritual way or psychological way it

1760
01:01:48,710 --> 01:01:47,220
does affect people obviously but they're

1761
01:01:49,970 --> 01:01:48,720
not trying to harm us you know the fact

1762
01:01:52,730 --> 01:01:49,980
that they're giving us green memories

1763
01:01:54,650 --> 01:01:52,740
and wiping memories might be for our

1764
01:01:57,170 --> 01:01:54,660
benefit not to give a psychological

1765
01:01:59,870 --> 01:01:57,180
trauma or something but the physical

1766
01:02:01,609 --> 01:01:59,880
world that we inhabit they're interested

1767
01:02:04,069 --> 01:02:01,619
in they come here and they do experience

1768
01:02:06,170 --> 01:02:04,079
on the physical body that's always

1769
01:02:08,510 --> 01:02:06,180
fascinated me like why are they so

1770
01:02:10,670 --> 01:02:08,520
interested in our in our body

1771
01:02:13,789 --> 01:02:10,680
specifically and the influence that

1772
01:02:15,710 --> 01:02:13,799
they've had over the years uh and we're

1773
01:02:17,809 --> 01:02:15,720
aware of it now like a lot more of us

1774
01:02:19,730 --> 01:02:17,819
are talking about it um that this is a

1775
01:02:22,250 --> 01:02:19,740
recurring pattern that there's

1776
01:02:25,309 --> 01:02:22,260
things that are happening to people

1777
01:02:27,109 --> 01:02:25,319
as far as working for the communications

1778
01:02:29,329 --> 01:02:27,119
director for the John Mack Institute

1779
01:02:30,829 --> 01:02:29,339
what is your role now like when people

1780
01:02:32,750 --> 01:02:30,839
want to reach out to you and they've had

1781
01:02:35,030 --> 01:02:32,760
these experiences how how can you be of

1782
01:02:37,609 --> 01:02:35,040
help to them

1783
01:02:38,809 --> 01:02:37,619
let's say a couple things preface to

1784
01:02:40,309 --> 01:02:38,819
that

1785
01:02:42,530 --> 01:02:40,319
because I think it's interesting I think

1786
01:02:43,910 --> 01:02:42,540
some people are concerned maybe they're

1787
01:02:45,710 --> 01:02:43,920
full-grown adults and they're worried

1788
01:02:48,170 --> 01:02:45,720
they're going to be abducted

1789
01:02:49,910 --> 01:02:48,180
the data seems to suggest that that's

1790
01:02:51,950 --> 01:02:49,920
not how it works while there are cases

1791
01:02:53,990 --> 01:02:51,960
like what you're talking about generally

1792
01:02:56,030 --> 01:02:54,000
the people that have experience

1793
01:02:57,410 --> 01:02:56,040
abductions it happens beginning in

1794
01:02:59,510 --> 01:02:57,420
childhood and actually they can remember

1795
01:03:02,089 --> 01:02:59,520
encounters with the beings in childhood

1796
01:03:04,309 --> 01:03:02,099
then wants to become once they get to

1797
01:03:05,870 --> 01:03:04,319
reproductive age that's when sometimes

1798
01:03:06,950 --> 01:03:05,880
the full-on abductions start happening

1799
01:03:08,569 --> 01:03:06,960
and they seem to be part of a

1800
01:03:10,309 --> 01:03:08,579
hybridization program

1801
01:03:12,710 --> 01:03:10,319
very often when those people are taking

1802
01:03:13,910 --> 01:03:12,720
family members are not usually taken

1803
01:03:15,829 --> 01:03:13,920
right or people who are sleeping over

1804
01:03:16,910 --> 01:03:15,839
are not usually taken they're usually

1805
01:03:19,789 --> 01:03:16,920
actually

1806
01:03:21,349 --> 01:03:19,799
comatose right even the people sometimes

1807
01:03:23,450 --> 01:03:21,359
that are the abductees will be try to

1808
01:03:24,650 --> 01:03:23,460
wake up the person and they could hit

1809
01:03:25,849 --> 01:03:24,660
them with a sledgehammer they're not

1810
01:03:27,890 --> 01:03:25,859
going to wake up they're completely

1811
01:03:30,470 --> 01:03:27,900
subdued right so again this speaks to

1812
01:03:33,470 --> 01:03:30,480
the degree of control these others

1813
01:03:34,789 --> 01:03:33,480
manifest over us they can take who they

1814
01:03:36,829 --> 01:03:34,799
want and they can pass them through

1815
01:03:38,270 --> 01:03:36,839
physical walls and you know solid walls

1816
01:03:41,210 --> 01:03:38,280
and whatnot float them up to a craft

1817
01:03:43,970 --> 01:03:41,220
levitate them through windows but also

1818
01:03:46,370 --> 01:03:43,980
you know put to sleep uh anyone else

1819
01:03:48,650 --> 01:03:46,380
who's in the vicinity and on top of that

1820
01:03:50,690 --> 01:03:48,660
again control even if you are awake they

1821
01:03:52,430 --> 01:03:50,700
can control what you see and they can

1822
01:03:54,650 --> 01:03:52,440
say oh you didn't see us you saw a deer

1823
01:03:56,089 --> 01:03:54,660
or whatever right but to your point I

1824
01:03:57,109 --> 01:03:56,099
think that that often is for our sake

1825
01:03:59,450 --> 01:03:57,119
not because they're trying to be

1826
01:04:01,910 --> 01:03:59,460
nefarious necessarily

1827
01:04:03,650 --> 01:04:01,920
I think also a really interesting thing

1828
01:04:06,770 --> 01:04:03,660
to consider have you have you guys had

1829
01:04:08,270 --> 01:04:06,780
Michael Masters on yet yeah yeah

1830
01:04:10,130 --> 01:04:08,280
right so there's this this extra

1831
01:04:12,589 --> 01:04:10,140
tempestral notion right because to your

1832
01:04:14,450 --> 01:04:12,599
point why would they be interested in us

1833
01:04:16,549 --> 01:04:14,460
why are we such a big deal why would

1834
01:04:18,589 --> 01:04:16,559
they want to create these hybridization

1835
01:04:21,289 --> 01:04:18,599
programs

1836
01:04:23,150 --> 01:04:21,299
and the most logical answer in terms of

1837
01:04:25,370 --> 01:04:23,160
like parsimony is to say well maybe

1838
01:04:28,010 --> 01:04:25,380
somehow they're connected to us and

1839
01:04:30,890 --> 01:04:28,020
that's why we're biologically compatible

1840
01:04:33,289 --> 01:04:30,900
and on top of that many experiencers do

1841
01:04:35,210 --> 01:04:33,299
sense that they are from some sense of

1842
01:04:36,230 --> 01:04:35,220
our future now where it gets complicated

1843
01:04:38,150 --> 01:04:36,240
here

1844
01:04:39,589 --> 01:04:38,160
and I've made this point to Mike is that

1845
01:04:41,030 --> 01:04:39,599
you know again our understanding of

1846
01:04:43,069 --> 01:04:41,040
space-time I think is is really

1847
01:04:44,870 --> 01:04:43,079
truncated and probably a long ways off

1848
01:04:46,730 --> 01:04:44,880
from actual reality but whatever time

1849
01:04:48,289 --> 01:04:46,740
ultimately represents

1850
01:04:50,750 --> 01:04:48,299
if we think about our experience of it

1851
01:04:52,430 --> 01:04:50,760
anyway they may be us from the future or

1852
01:04:53,750 --> 01:04:52,440
some version of us

1853
01:04:56,210 --> 01:04:53,760
and that's why there's the the

1854
01:04:59,809 --> 01:04:56,220
biological compatibility and on top of

1855
01:05:02,089 --> 01:04:59,819
that they seem to perhaps need a certain

1856
01:05:03,950 --> 01:05:02,099
kind of genetic variance just to use the

1857
01:05:06,109 --> 01:05:03,960
the official term that Mike talks in

1858
01:05:08,510 --> 01:05:06,119
terms of they need a new kind of

1859
01:05:10,609 --> 01:05:08,520
injection of genetic variants because

1860
01:05:13,010 --> 01:05:10,619
they are lacking something they want to

1861
01:05:15,170 --> 01:05:13,020
introduce something either to themselves

1862
01:05:16,970 --> 01:05:15,180
or they want to create a third entity

1863
01:05:18,950 --> 01:05:16,980
that's sort of a bit of us and a bit of

1864
01:05:20,089 --> 01:05:18,960
them that has the best of both worlds in

1865
01:05:23,450 --> 01:05:20,099
some ways

1866
01:05:25,069 --> 01:05:23,460
so that perhaps suggests it gives us

1867
01:05:26,569 --> 01:05:25,079
some sense of why they're targeting

1868
01:05:28,549 --> 01:05:26,579
certain people not just people but

1869
01:05:30,470 --> 01:05:28,559
sometimes three generations right of

1870
01:05:33,470 --> 01:05:30,480
people because there's something about

1871
01:05:35,690 --> 01:05:33,480
that person's biological makeup that is

1872
01:05:37,010 --> 01:05:35,700
what they need specifically so the point

1873
01:05:38,270 --> 01:05:37,020
being if you're you know well into

1874
01:05:40,069 --> 01:05:38,280
adulthood and you've not had these

1875
01:05:42,470 --> 01:05:40,079
experiences you're very unlikely to

1876
01:05:44,150 --> 01:05:42,480
suddenly be you know be chosen for the

1877
01:05:46,609 --> 01:05:44,160
hybridization program because it tends

1878
01:05:48,170 --> 01:05:46,619
to happen from childhood on unless

1879
01:05:49,490 --> 01:05:48,180
you're just repressing things and it's

1880
01:05:50,270 --> 01:05:49,500
been happening all along you just don't

1881
01:05:51,770 --> 01:05:50,280
know

1882
01:05:52,609 --> 01:05:51,780
but that's something to keep in mind and

1883
01:05:54,950 --> 01:05:52,619
I think

1884
01:05:56,990 --> 01:05:54,960
again sometimes people just go this

1885
01:05:59,210 --> 01:05:57,000
sounds ridiculous they look too much

1886
01:06:00,410 --> 01:05:59,220
like us so often they're humanoid and

1887
01:06:03,170 --> 01:06:00,420
that makes some people say this sounds

1888
01:06:04,849 --> 01:06:03,180
like an X-Files episode I mean why would

1889
01:06:05,930 --> 01:06:04,859
an alien entity from a different planet

1890
01:06:08,270 --> 01:06:05,940
that has completely different

1891
01:06:10,370 --> 01:06:08,280
evolutionary pressures look anything

1892
01:06:11,510 --> 01:06:10,380
like us and be able to communicate with

1893
01:06:13,970 --> 01:06:11,520
us in any way

1894
01:06:15,470 --> 01:06:13,980
right I was again thinking about

1895
01:06:17,630 --> 01:06:15,480
something recently about how some

1896
01:06:19,010 --> 01:06:17,640
insects and bees they kind of vibrate

1897
01:06:20,870 --> 01:06:19,020
and Buzz and that's how they communicate

1898
01:06:22,609 --> 01:06:20,880
to each other why is it that they

1899
01:06:24,289 --> 01:06:22,619
continually speak to us in plain English

1900
01:06:26,990 --> 01:06:24,299
even if it's like going into our mind

1901
01:06:28,730 --> 01:06:27,000
and not coming through vocal cords again

1902
01:06:31,190 --> 01:06:28,740
it seems to suggest some sort of

1903
01:06:32,630 --> 01:06:31,200
connection and even people I know that

1904
01:06:35,109 --> 01:06:32,640
were involved in the abductions back in

1905
01:06:37,930 --> 01:06:35,119
the 90s that you know saw John out

1906
01:06:40,190 --> 01:06:37,940
that's their sense that they are somehow

1907
01:06:42,289 --> 01:06:40,200
perhaps us from the future even though

1908
01:06:44,029 --> 01:06:42,299
back then that really wasn't on the

1909
01:06:47,150 --> 01:06:44,039
radar nearly as much

1910
01:06:49,029 --> 01:06:47,160
but when you read Mike's work again he

1911
01:06:51,529 --> 01:06:49,039
has a specialty in the hominin line

1912
01:06:54,470 --> 01:06:51,539
evolutionary biology is his background

1913
01:06:57,230 --> 01:06:54,480
he's able to look at this with a

1914
01:06:58,910 --> 01:06:57,240
scientific lens and say not only is it

1915
01:07:01,250 --> 01:06:58,920
possible but from his point of view they

1916
01:07:02,569 --> 01:07:01,260
must somehow be related to us so that

1917
01:07:05,210 --> 01:07:02,579
again gives us really interesting

1918
01:07:07,370 --> 01:07:05,220
Avenues to pursue and might give us some

1919
01:07:09,829 --> 01:07:07,380
sense in terms of intention and ultimate

1920
01:07:11,329 --> 01:07:09,839
agenda in terms of who they are why

1921
01:07:13,670 --> 01:07:11,339
they're here and why they're taking some

1922
01:07:15,289 --> 01:07:13,680
of us but not necessarily all of us well

1923
01:07:17,029 --> 01:07:15,299
there's even signs of things starting to

1924
01:07:18,950 --> 01:07:17,039
go arranged even on our own Planet like

1925
01:07:20,930 --> 01:07:18,960
for example the Y chromosome in the

1926
01:07:22,490 --> 01:07:20,940
whole animal kingdom is getting less and

1927
01:07:24,529 --> 01:07:22,500
less I think they're studying Tigers

1928
01:07:26,029 --> 01:07:24,539
right now there's very few male tigers

1929
01:07:28,670 --> 01:07:26,039
reproduced they think they might have to

1930
01:07:31,190 --> 01:07:28,680
do something with DDT pesticides that

1931
01:07:33,410 --> 01:07:31,200
herbivores ate then the carnivores ate

1932
01:07:35,750 --> 01:07:33,420
the herbivores and now there's these

1933
01:07:38,270 --> 01:07:35,760
traits so if you take Michael Masters

1934
01:07:39,770 --> 01:07:38,280
theory that we evolve and if we do go to

1935
01:07:41,990 --> 01:07:39,780
another planet or something like that

1936
01:07:43,970 --> 01:07:42,000
we're no longer hunter-gatherer we don't

1937
01:07:46,130 --> 01:07:43,980
need the strong physique our heads can

1938
01:07:48,109 --> 01:07:46,140
continue to get larger as the hominid

1939
01:07:50,150 --> 01:07:48,119
line has done the CC's keep increasing

1940
01:07:52,549 --> 01:07:50,160
that would sort of protrude over the

1941
01:07:55,370 --> 01:07:52,559
forehead the eyes become bulbous the

1942
01:07:56,930 --> 01:07:55,380
arms spindly even the jaw shrinks I mean

1943
01:07:59,329 --> 01:07:56,940
anyone who has wisdom tooth issues

1944
01:08:00,950 --> 01:07:59,339
that's a result in myself included it's

1945
01:08:03,289 --> 01:08:00,960
the result of evolution we don't need

1946
01:08:04,849 --> 01:08:03,299
the extra teeth to tear meat apart so

1947
01:08:07,970 --> 01:08:04,859
we're already showing signs of evolution

1948
01:08:10,970 --> 01:08:07,980
here fast forward 10 000 years a million

1949
01:08:13,309 --> 01:08:10,980
years it might make sense that there's a

1950
01:08:15,710 --> 01:08:13,319
genetic issue maybe they can't reproduce

1951
01:08:17,809 --> 01:08:15,720
maybe there's no variation maybe the

1952
01:08:19,669 --> 01:08:17,819
planet blew up and very few or survived

1953
01:08:21,289 --> 01:08:19,679
or only the ones on a colony I mean your

1954
01:08:23,689 --> 01:08:21,299
brain can go down a million rabbit holes

1955
01:08:26,749 --> 01:08:23,699
but maybe it is specifically genetics

1956
01:08:28,669 --> 01:08:26,759
related in that sense right and a lot of

1957
01:08:30,110 --> 01:08:28,679
people that have had experiences the

1958
01:08:32,749 --> 01:08:30,120
ones that are sort of conscious enough

1959
01:08:35,150 --> 01:08:32,759
to ask a question will say like who are

1960
01:08:37,249 --> 01:08:35,160
you and a lot of times the answer is we

1961
01:08:39,590 --> 01:08:37,259
are you and that makes it easy we are

1962
01:08:41,269 --> 01:08:39,600
you and you're us yes yeah yeah we are

1963
01:08:43,610 --> 01:08:41,279
one and just I guess unless they're

1964
01:08:45,950 --> 01:08:43,620
messing with us to add insult to injury

1965
01:08:48,890 --> 01:08:45,960
but there is a lot of credence that it

1966
01:08:50,390 --> 01:08:48,900
could potentially of all the theories I

1967
01:08:51,530 --> 01:08:50,400
think that one it does hold some ground

1968
01:08:53,809 --> 01:08:51,540
for sure

1969
01:08:55,070 --> 01:08:53,819
right and to to finish the point I was

1970
01:08:56,990 --> 01:08:55,080
testing at earlier

1971
01:08:59,269 --> 01:08:57,000
in the 90s the people I know that were

1972
01:09:00,709 --> 01:08:59,279
abducted and saw John out back then no

1973
01:09:03,229 --> 01:09:00,719
one was talking about this this

1974
01:09:04,610 --> 01:09:03,239
hypothesis the extrateral hypotheses

1975
01:09:06,530 --> 01:09:04,620
Mike's term

1976
01:09:08,930 --> 01:09:06,540
so they assumed they were space aliens

1977
01:09:11,030 --> 01:09:08,940
but I know those very same people that

1978
01:09:13,249 --> 01:09:11,040
now have been become familiar with his

1979
01:09:14,630 --> 01:09:13,259
hypothesis they say wait a second I

1980
01:09:17,030 --> 01:09:14,640
remember this and I remember that I

1981
01:09:18,950 --> 01:09:17,040
remember them saying we arrest you know

1982
01:09:21,169 --> 01:09:18,960
and and you are yeah we are you and you

1983
01:09:22,550 --> 01:09:21,179
were Us and Them saying things like we

1984
01:09:23,749 --> 01:09:22,560
were from so far in the future that you

1985
01:09:26,870 --> 01:09:23,759
can't even really wrap your head around

1986
01:09:29,030 --> 01:09:26,880
it right and and again it gets past the

1987
01:09:31,309 --> 01:09:29,040
ska Factor because they look humanoid

1988
01:09:32,749 --> 01:09:31,319
and they look so much like us because in

1989
01:09:34,070 --> 01:09:32,759
some way they are us right when you

1990
01:09:36,110 --> 01:09:34,080
suddenly look at it from that lens it

1991
01:09:37,849 --> 01:09:36,120
makes complete sense and not only the

1992
01:09:40,490 --> 01:09:37,859
humanoid wines and not even just the

1993
01:09:42,890 --> 01:09:40,500
Grays and by the way as you guys know

1994
01:09:44,930 --> 01:09:42,900
part of Mike's point is that when you

1995
01:09:48,349 --> 01:09:44,940
take the current evolutionary Trends

1996
01:09:50,510 --> 01:09:48,359
alone and you just like follow those out

1997
01:09:52,189 --> 01:09:50,520
that will give you something more like a

1998
01:09:53,689 --> 01:09:52,199
gray alien right we're already in that

1999
01:09:55,669 --> 01:09:53,699
that kind of trajectory and as you say

2000
01:09:57,350 --> 01:09:55,679
if we have something like some sort of

2001
01:09:59,510 --> 01:09:57,360
cataclysmic event that perhaps they're

2002
01:10:01,850 --> 01:09:59,520
here to try to warn us about where we

2003
01:10:04,189 --> 01:10:01,860
have reduced sunlight and the the Earth

2004
01:10:06,110 --> 01:10:04,199
becomes cold and we go underground then

2005
01:10:08,750 --> 01:10:06,120
suddenly it would like speed up these

2006
01:10:11,090 --> 01:10:08,760
these evolutionary shifts to have the

2007
01:10:14,750 --> 01:10:11,100
larger eyes to see in low sunlight kind

2008
01:10:17,810 --> 01:10:14,760
of situations as you say if you can

2009
01:10:19,850 --> 01:10:17,820
maybe out of necessity you know evolve

2010
01:10:21,530 --> 01:10:19,860
to take a nutrients through skin for

2011
01:10:23,990 --> 01:10:21,540
instance they talk about experiences

2012
01:10:25,430 --> 01:10:24,000
talk about seeing basically like a gel

2013
01:10:26,510 --> 01:10:25,440
like substance kind of absorbed through

2014
01:10:28,370 --> 01:10:26,520
the skin that's how they take in

2015
01:10:29,930 --> 01:10:28,380
nutrients and when you can communicate

2016
01:10:32,510 --> 01:10:29,940
telepathically why do you need a mouth

2017
01:10:34,250 --> 01:10:32,520
anymore right so we see this in in

2018
01:10:37,370 --> 01:10:34,260
evolutionary history where you get these

2019
01:10:39,590 --> 01:10:37,380
in between kind of uh manifestations of

2020
01:10:42,050 --> 01:10:39,600
creatures that you can tell they're like

2021
01:10:43,669 --> 01:10:42,060
halfway from one form to another form

2022
01:10:45,950 --> 01:10:43,679
where a certain kind of feature is no

2023
01:10:48,350 --> 01:10:45,960
longer advantageous and it's slowly

2024
01:10:49,070 --> 01:10:48,360
being evolved out of existence basically

2025
01:10:52,550 --> 01:10:49,080
yeah

2026
01:10:54,530 --> 01:10:52,560
same idea there that that the the barely

2027
01:10:56,330 --> 01:10:54,540
hint of a nose and a mouth and ears is

2028
01:10:58,729 --> 01:10:56,340
because when you become fully telepathic

2029
01:11:00,709 --> 01:10:58,739
and you no longer need mouth and teeth

2030
01:11:03,350 --> 01:11:00,719
to consume food

2031
01:11:04,970 --> 01:11:03,360
then over time those become less and

2032
01:11:07,610 --> 01:11:04,980
less pronounced until perhaps eventually

2033
01:11:08,990 --> 01:11:07,620
they fade out entirely but yeah I think

2034
01:11:10,790 --> 01:11:09,000
this makes a lot of sense and not just

2035
01:11:13,430 --> 01:11:10,800
the graves perhaps being a future

2036
01:11:15,229 --> 01:11:13,440
version of us but if you think about the

2037
01:11:16,729 --> 01:11:15,239
giant mantis beings you know I'm a good

2038
01:11:19,610 --> 01:11:16,739
friend with Stuart Davis and he's had

2039
01:11:23,090 --> 01:11:19,620
encounters with a giant mantis why would

2040
01:11:25,610 --> 01:11:23,100
an alien look like a giant version of an

2041
01:11:28,189 --> 01:11:25,620
insect we see outside when we go out

2042
01:11:29,930 --> 01:11:28,199
right it doesn't make any sense even the

2043
01:11:31,610 --> 01:11:29,940
reptilians look a little bit like a

2044
01:11:34,189 --> 01:11:31,620
cross between a human being and kind of

2045
01:11:36,110 --> 01:11:34,199
a reptile or a lizard these are all

2046
01:11:38,030 --> 01:11:36,120
forms we already see on our very own

2047
01:11:40,430 --> 01:11:38,040
planet and again based on what we

2048
01:11:42,830 --> 01:11:40,440
learned in science there's no reason why

2049
01:11:44,689 --> 01:11:42,840
those same forms would really

2050
01:11:46,070 --> 01:11:44,699
arise on a different planet with

2051
01:11:48,229 --> 01:11:46,080
completely different evolutionary

2052
01:11:50,090 --> 01:11:48,239
pressures so this I think hints at least

2053
01:11:52,970 --> 01:11:50,100
at some possibilities and we really need

2054
01:11:54,470 --> 01:11:52,980
to engage science to begin to do some

2055
01:11:56,990 --> 01:11:54,480
research here because there are some

2056
01:11:58,610 --> 01:11:57,000
tantalizing Clues

2057
01:12:00,110 --> 01:11:58,620
what do you think and just and this will

2058
01:12:02,450 --> 01:12:00,120
be my last question for you because

2059
01:12:03,950 --> 01:12:02,460
we'll have to let you go here soon won't

2060
01:12:05,950 --> 01:12:03,960
keep you too long but we've got to do a

2061
01:12:09,709 --> 01:12:05,960
part two one of these days oh absolutely

2062
01:12:12,169 --> 01:12:09,719
uh but what do you think that means for

2063
01:12:15,229 --> 01:12:12,179
Humanity to sort

2064
01:12:17,689 --> 01:12:15,239
of just start focusing on this subject

2065
01:12:19,310 --> 01:12:17,699
focusing on what is happening we have a

2066
01:12:21,110 --> 01:12:19,320
slogan on the show are you paying

2067
01:12:22,310 --> 01:12:21,120
attention because really if you're

2068
01:12:24,189 --> 01:12:22,320
paying attention you're starting to

2069
01:12:26,570 --> 01:12:24,199
notice that there's something not right

2070
01:12:28,550 --> 01:12:26,580
and it hasn't been right for a long time

2071
01:12:30,649 --> 01:12:28,560
it's just nobody's talking about it it's

2072
01:12:32,450 --> 01:12:30,659
kind of like a back in the 1950s when

2073
01:12:34,370 --> 01:12:32,460
you knew your next door neighbor was

2074
01:12:35,990 --> 01:12:34,380
beating up his wife but you still wave

2075
01:12:38,689 --> 01:12:36,000
to him every morning and pretends if

2076
01:12:41,630 --> 01:12:38,699
nothing happened right this is exactly

2077
01:12:43,130 --> 01:12:41,640
what the UFO phenomenon feels like we're

2078
01:12:45,050 --> 01:12:43,140
all aware of it we just pretend it

2079
01:12:46,070 --> 01:12:45,060
doesn't exist and don't talk about it

2080
01:12:48,830 --> 01:12:46,080
right

2081
01:12:51,410 --> 01:12:48,840
what do you think within the next I I'd

2082
01:12:53,810 --> 01:12:51,420
say next year how far along are we going

2083
01:12:55,850 --> 01:12:53,820
to get to bring this subject forward to

2084
01:12:57,950 --> 01:12:55,860
the mainstream media and to people at

2085
01:12:59,330 --> 01:12:57,960
large like do you think we're on the

2086
01:13:02,149 --> 01:12:59,340
right path do you think something big is

2087
01:13:03,830 --> 01:13:02,159
going to happen at this point

2088
01:13:07,310 --> 01:13:03,840
great question

2089
01:13:08,930 --> 01:13:07,320
so part of me doing my podcast and

2090
01:13:10,729 --> 01:13:08,940
speaking at conferences and bidding

2091
01:13:12,649 --> 01:13:10,739
asked to attend different private

2092
01:13:16,130 --> 01:13:12,659
Retreats and whatnot is I made a lot of

2093
01:13:17,570 --> 01:13:16,140
connections and so so I'm privy to some

2094
01:13:21,050 --> 01:13:17,580
of the internal workings of what's going

2095
01:13:24,410 --> 01:13:21,060
on and I'll say that to say that

2096
01:13:26,330 --> 01:13:24,420
there are people right now Gary Nolan uh

2097
01:13:28,189 --> 01:13:26,340
John Ramirez people like this making

2098
01:13:32,450 --> 01:13:28,199
strong hands and making some pretty bold

2099
01:13:34,189 --> 01:13:32,460
claims just yesterday uh Gary said some

2100
01:13:35,390 --> 01:13:34,199
pretty bold things in front of an

2101
01:13:37,729 --> 01:13:35,400
audience that they're not even familiar

2102
01:13:39,350 --> 01:13:37,739
with this topic but it's an audience

2103
01:13:41,930 --> 01:13:39,360
that might be able to take it and invest

2104
01:13:45,590 --> 01:13:41,940
money and research and whatnot

2105
01:13:47,689 --> 01:13:45,600
so people are becoming more bold about

2106
01:13:49,130 --> 01:13:47,699
the things they're saying and I would

2107
01:13:51,470 --> 01:13:49,140
suggest you that's by Design because

2108
01:13:53,689 --> 01:13:51,480
there's there's a sense growing that

2109
01:13:58,010 --> 01:13:53,699
something's going to break and it's

2110
01:14:00,350 --> 01:13:58,020
going to be uh kind of like the 2017 as

2111
01:14:02,930 --> 01:14:00,360
the cane article but but Eclipse that

2112
01:14:05,330 --> 01:14:02,940
even so that's my sense of what's coming

2113
01:14:06,890 --> 01:14:05,340
and that's not just based on you know my

2114
01:14:08,810 --> 01:14:06,900
imagination and what I want to be but

2115
01:14:12,050 --> 01:14:08,820
that's what I'm actually hearing that

2116
01:14:14,630 --> 01:14:12,060
this will be much more of a mainstream

2117
01:14:16,669 --> 01:14:14,640
concern and I think all of us like you

2118
01:14:18,169 --> 01:14:16,679
say intimately familiar with this topic

2119
01:14:20,149 --> 01:14:18,179
wonder why is this not headline news

2120
01:14:24,050 --> 01:14:20,159
already why is this always like you know

2121
01:14:25,970 --> 01:14:24,060
page 15 if it gets anything at all

2122
01:14:28,370 --> 01:14:25,980
well I think that's that's going to

2123
01:14:30,110 --> 01:14:28,380
change and but of course that creates

2124
01:14:32,630 --> 01:14:30,120
all sorts of interesting secondary

2125
01:14:34,669 --> 01:14:32,640
effects like I was talking about what

2126
01:14:37,070 --> 01:14:34,679
happens when people shift their

2127
01:14:38,930 --> 01:14:37,080
Consciousness to to allow for this

2128
01:14:40,729 --> 01:14:38,940
broader reality how does that change our

2129
01:14:42,890 --> 01:14:40,739
relationship with reality

2130
01:14:44,870 --> 01:14:42,900
I would also suggest that you know back

2131
01:14:46,729 --> 01:14:44,880
in the 90s when experiencers were were

2132
01:14:48,830 --> 01:14:46,739
having these encounters and were warned

2133
01:14:50,810 --> 01:14:48,840
about us being kind of on a bad track

2134
01:14:52,490 --> 01:14:50,820
and if we didn't change our ways bad

2135
01:14:55,130 --> 01:14:52,500
things awaited us

2136
01:14:56,930 --> 01:14:55,140
well we're 30 years on and

2137
01:14:58,250 --> 01:14:56,940
everybody I talked to that was part of

2138
01:15:00,470 --> 01:14:58,260
that initial group that had those

2139
01:15:02,090 --> 01:15:00,480
experiences I feel like things are much

2140
01:15:03,950 --> 01:15:02,100
worse now than they were then

2141
01:15:05,270 --> 01:15:03,960
environmentally and whatnot in many

2142
01:15:07,250 --> 01:15:05,280
other ways as well

2143
01:15:09,290 --> 01:15:07,260
there's you know you can count numerous

2144
01:15:11,270 --> 01:15:09,300
ways we could destroy ourselves in a

2145
01:15:13,610 --> 01:15:11,280
heartbeat whether it's some sort of

2146
01:15:16,610 --> 01:15:13,620
viral contagion that breaks out of a lab

2147
01:15:18,350 --> 01:15:16,620
or is used deliberately or we just

2148
01:15:20,149 --> 01:15:18,360
suddenly have a biosphere collapse

2149
01:15:22,250 --> 01:15:20,159
because we we didn't pay attention to

2150
01:15:24,229 --> 01:15:22,260
the warning signs these are things that

2151
01:15:26,870 --> 01:15:24,239
have been told to experiences for

2152
01:15:28,970 --> 01:15:26,880
decades and everybody I know from those

2153
01:15:32,209 --> 01:15:28,980
earlier times feel like it's it's much

2154
01:15:35,689 --> 01:15:32,219
worse now much more

2155
01:15:37,310 --> 01:15:35,699
imminent now than was then and not just

2156
01:15:38,510 --> 01:15:37,320
their sense but that's the telepathic

2157
01:15:42,229 --> 01:15:38,520
downloads that are happening now too

2158
01:15:44,090 --> 01:15:42,239
there's even been an uptick in in the

2159
01:15:47,030 --> 01:15:44,100
telepathic downloads so some people kind

2160
01:15:49,729 --> 01:15:47,040
of had a a close-off of those encounters

2161
01:15:50,810 --> 01:15:49,739
around the year 2000 and 20 years went

2162
01:15:52,430 --> 01:15:50,820
by but they did not really have any

2163
01:15:54,890 --> 01:15:52,440
experiences but now they're kicking off

2164
01:15:57,229 --> 01:15:54,900
again and but most of it's telepathic

2165
01:16:00,830 --> 01:15:57,239
and it's about things are about to

2166
01:16:02,149 --> 01:16:00,840
happen you know be prepared and to some

2167
01:16:03,770 --> 01:16:02,159
degree some people feel like they were

2168
01:16:08,270 --> 01:16:03,780
prepared in those earlier encounters to

2169
01:16:10,130 --> 01:16:08,280
help be part of uh an orientation crew

2170
01:16:12,590 --> 01:16:10,140
that helps Humanity get through whatever

2171
01:16:14,390 --> 01:16:12,600
we're about to go through many questions

2172
01:16:15,890 --> 01:16:14,400
around that and I would suggest you even

2173
01:16:18,290 --> 01:16:15,900
that there's there's some suggestion

2174
01:16:20,209 --> 01:16:18,300
that even the 2017

2175
01:16:23,209 --> 01:16:20,219
shift from a governmental perspective

2176
01:16:26,630 --> 01:16:23,219
towards more openness and a slow bleed

2177
01:16:28,850 --> 01:16:26,640
towards disclosure was by Design as well

2178
01:16:31,430 --> 01:16:28,860
so I think all of these things are

2179
01:16:34,130 --> 01:16:31,440
connected the fact that we are in such a

2180
01:16:35,810 --> 01:16:34,140
perilous place on this planet

2181
01:16:37,610 --> 01:16:35,820
the fact that

2182
01:16:39,350 --> 01:16:37,620
when we hear about our Naval groups in

2183
01:16:41,330 --> 01:16:39,360
the U.S for instance being encountering

2184
01:16:43,850 --> 01:16:41,340
these things 30 a day sometimes and

2185
01:16:46,669 --> 01:16:43,860
different shapes

2186
01:16:49,550 --> 01:16:46,679
to the point where politicians have no

2187
01:16:52,310 --> 01:16:49,560
choice right but to to engage with this

2188
01:16:54,110 --> 01:16:52,320
to talk about it to acknowledge it I

2189
01:16:56,570 --> 01:16:54,120
would suggest that it's because the

2190
01:16:57,830 --> 01:16:56,580
others elements of them are actually

2191
01:17:01,370 --> 01:16:57,840
pushing that forward because again

2192
01:17:02,870 --> 01:17:01,380
because their control is so complete if

2193
01:17:04,669 --> 01:17:02,880
they didn't want disclosure it would not

2194
01:17:06,229 --> 01:17:04,679
be happening but I think we are on the

2195
01:17:08,750 --> 01:17:06,239
cusp of that kind of

2196
01:17:10,669 --> 01:17:08,760
Global recognition and all of those

2197
01:17:12,530 --> 01:17:10,679
things are connected

2198
01:17:14,149 --> 01:17:12,540
something needs to change something's

2199
01:17:16,610 --> 01:17:14,159
got to give and I think that's why we're

2200
01:17:18,229 --> 01:17:16,620
seeing an uptick in in activity from

2201
01:17:21,709 --> 01:17:18,239
some of these others we're seeing more

2202
01:17:23,149 --> 01:17:21,719
engagement from politicians and for very

2203
01:17:25,510 --> 01:17:23,159
long I think we're going to reckon with

2204
01:17:28,669 --> 01:17:25,520
all of these things hopefully together

2205
01:17:31,010 --> 01:17:28,679
and I'm My Hope Is that there'll be some

2206
01:17:33,410 --> 01:17:31,020
fundamental changes made this is part of

2207
01:17:34,790 --> 01:17:33,420
what we really want to see with the John

2208
01:17:36,649 --> 01:17:34,800
Mack Institute

2209
01:17:39,169 --> 01:17:36,659
we're very much about this notion of

2210
01:17:41,570 --> 01:17:39,179
Earth 2.0 how can we

2211
01:17:42,950 --> 01:17:41,580
live as a species differently with each

2212
01:17:45,050 --> 01:17:42,960
other in our relationship with the

2213
01:17:47,330 --> 01:17:45,060
planet embracing this notion of being

2214
01:17:48,950 --> 01:17:47,340
part of a cosmic Community that's all

2215
01:17:51,470 --> 01:17:48,960
things we want to move towards in fact

2216
01:17:53,570 --> 01:17:51,480
that's the main goal in the long run is

2217
01:17:56,149 --> 01:17:53,580
to actually find ways to actually have

2218
01:17:58,130 --> 01:17:56,159
alternative models of a way of being not

2219
01:18:00,770 --> 01:17:58,140
just as individuals not a little commune

2220
01:18:02,450 --> 01:18:00,780
in the forest but a scalable model for a

2221
01:18:04,130 --> 01:18:02,460
different kind of reality

2222
01:18:05,630 --> 01:18:04,140
relationship with ourselves with the

2223
01:18:07,310 --> 01:18:05,640
environment with the others

2224
01:18:08,810 --> 01:18:07,320
and which leads me to your earlier

2225
01:18:12,470 --> 01:18:08,820
question which I didn't get a chance to

2226
01:18:13,850 --> 01:18:12,480
answer what do experiencers uh how can

2227
01:18:15,590 --> 01:18:13,860
they be helped by the John Mack

2228
01:18:17,390 --> 01:18:15,600
institute there's different resources

2229
01:18:19,790 --> 01:18:17,400
around right now that people can reach

2230
01:18:21,530 --> 01:18:19,800
out to to help make sense of these

2231
01:18:23,630 --> 01:18:21,540
discombobulating experiences we're one

2232
01:18:26,090 --> 01:18:23,640
of them so if people have experiences

2233
01:18:28,010 --> 01:18:26,100
and they're either you know wowed by it

2234
01:18:29,930 --> 01:18:28,020
and feeling inspired with some of the

2235
01:18:31,910 --> 01:18:29,940
changes I'm talking about then you know

2236
01:18:33,890 --> 01:18:31,920
reach out and connect and we can conform

2237
01:18:36,050 --> 01:18:33,900
Community if you're on the other hand

2238
01:18:37,669 --> 01:18:36,060
feeling discombobulated and overwhelmed

2239
01:18:39,830 --> 01:18:37,679
and shocked by experiences that you

2240
01:18:41,750 --> 01:18:39,840
can't make sense of again reach out and

2241
01:18:43,910 --> 01:18:41,760
we're one of different a few different

2242
01:18:45,350 --> 01:18:43,920
resources that can help with that

2243
01:18:47,450 --> 01:18:45,360
but again I think in the long run

2244
01:18:50,090 --> 01:18:47,460
whether you're an experiencer or not our

2245
01:18:52,070 --> 01:18:50,100
goal is to actually unite around a new

2246
01:18:55,370 --> 01:18:52,080
vision that these messages are there for

2247
01:18:58,250 --> 01:18:55,380
a purpose and we need to act on those

2248
01:19:00,770 --> 01:18:58,260
messages that again it's not like we

2249
01:19:02,630 --> 01:19:00,780
don't see evidence backing up what these

2250
01:19:05,030 --> 01:19:02,640
evidence what these messages are saying

2251
01:19:06,470 --> 01:19:05,040
we are in perilous times we do need to

2252
01:19:08,510 --> 01:19:06,480
change something and that's that's our

2253
01:19:10,790 --> 01:19:08,520
ultimate goal that that will happen

2254
01:19:12,050 --> 01:19:10,800
amazing well we have you Darren where

2255
01:19:13,669 --> 01:19:12,060
can people if they want to learn more

2256
01:19:15,890 --> 01:19:13,679
about you follow some of your personal

2257
01:19:17,750 --> 01:19:15,900
work where can they find you and your

2258
01:19:21,350 --> 01:19:17,760
podcasts

2259
01:19:22,729 --> 01:19:21,360
I'm involved in point of conversions is

2260
01:19:25,910 --> 01:19:22,739
is the one I've been doing since around

2261
01:19:27,950 --> 01:19:25,920
2020 where I take basically one

2262
01:19:29,209 --> 01:19:27,960
particular topic it's called point of

2263
01:19:31,729 --> 01:19:29,219
convergence because of what we talked

2264
01:19:33,410 --> 01:19:31,739
about earlier parapsychology near-death

2265
01:19:35,870 --> 01:19:33,420
experiences out of body experiences

2266
01:19:37,310 --> 01:19:35,880
contact with alien intelligence

2267
01:19:38,810 --> 01:19:37,320
apparently alien intelligence right

2268
01:19:40,729 --> 01:19:38,820
that's why I say non-conventionally

2269
01:19:43,189 --> 01:19:40,739
human intelligence because perhaps they

2270
01:19:45,530 --> 01:19:43,199
are somehow us at least some of them so

2271
01:19:47,209 --> 01:19:45,540
that podcast I do is sort of a 30 to 40

2272
01:19:48,470 --> 01:19:47,219
minute treaties on a particular topic

2273
01:19:50,750 --> 01:19:48,480
related to that

2274
01:19:52,310 --> 01:19:50,760
I'm also involved in a podcast called

2275
01:19:55,070 --> 01:19:52,320
liminal frames with it spelled with a

2276
01:19:58,010 --> 01:19:55,080
pdh at sort of in honor of a phenomenon

2277
01:20:00,110 --> 01:19:58,020
there uh we're my friend Nathan and I do

2278
01:20:01,250 --> 01:20:00,120
a 90-minute kind of Deep dive into a

2279
01:20:03,770 --> 01:20:01,260
particular topic and it's more

2280
01:20:05,689 --> 01:20:03,780
conversational so people can find those

2281
01:20:07,010 --> 01:20:05,699
on my YouTube channel which is EXO

2282
01:20:10,250 --> 01:20:07,020
academian

2283
01:20:12,530 --> 01:20:10,260
they can find both of those shows on

2284
01:20:14,630 --> 01:20:12,540
there all the videos are there and I

2285
01:20:16,130 --> 01:20:14,640
also have you know individual podcasts

2286
01:20:17,930 --> 01:20:16,140
so liminal frames is its own dedicated

2287
01:20:19,669 --> 01:20:17,940
podcast and whatever podcast platform

2288
01:20:22,250 --> 01:20:19,679
you use same thing with point of

2289
01:20:24,770 --> 01:20:22,260
convergence and I'm on Twitter I'm on

2290
01:20:27,050 --> 01:20:24,780
Facebook and uh yeah people are welcome

2291
01:20:28,610 --> 01:20:27,060
to reach out to me awesome it's been

2292
01:20:30,290 --> 01:20:28,620
great having you man I know Jason and I

2293
01:20:32,209 --> 01:20:30,300
both really enjoyed it we'll have to do

2294
01:20:34,430 --> 01:20:32,219
a part two maybe a deep dive on a cool

2295
01:20:36,110 --> 01:20:34,440
topic we all enjoy we try to keep our

2296
01:20:38,330 --> 01:20:36,120
shows to around the hour mark we find

2297
01:20:40,669 --> 01:20:38,340
it's a a good sized junket where it's

2298
01:20:42,590 --> 01:20:40,679
not too long but we still can do a deep

2299
01:20:44,990 --> 01:20:42,600
enough dive on the topic and get new

2300
01:20:46,669 --> 01:20:45,000
information for everybody so with that

2301
01:20:47,870 --> 01:20:46,679
we'll turn it over to our viewers let us

2302
01:20:50,030 --> 01:20:47,880
know what you think of today's show in

2303
01:20:51,709 --> 01:20:50,040
the comments if you're not on YouTube

2304
01:20:53,810 --> 01:20:51,719
hop on over there feel free to leave

2305
01:20:55,790 --> 01:20:53,820
comments we respond to them all if you

2306
01:20:57,830 --> 01:20:55,800
like our shows please hit like and if

2307
01:21:00,890 --> 01:20:57,840
you haven't subscribed yet we're gonna

2308
01:21:02,450 --> 01:21:00,900
do it yeah there's a red button on the

2309
01:21:04,010 --> 01:21:02,460
screen telling you to subscribe two

2310
01:21:06,110 --> 01:21:04,020
seconds right just do it we do

2311
01:21:07,550 --> 01:21:06,120
appreciate it and again Darren thank you

2312
01:21:10,130 --> 01:21:07,560
for your time brother it was a blast

2313
01:21:11,870 --> 01:21:10,140
we'd love to have you back again anytime

2314
01:21:13,310 --> 01:21:11,880
I appreciate it too guys it was a lot of

2315
01:21:20,510 --> 01:21:13,320
fun and I'll be back whenever you want